PAPod 516 - New Ideas for Old Problems: Navigating Sustainable Change

Show Transcript

WEBVTT

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Okay, let's take a break for about 16 minutes here and stop recording this audio for this audio book.

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Man, that is like, I don't know.

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It seems like that would be a really, like if you had to torture somebody,

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that would be a good way to do it. We'll be right back.

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Music.

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Hey everybody todd conklin pre-accident investigation

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podcast how are you it is so good

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to hear your happy voice and to spend

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time with you so i have lots of reporting to

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give you this week big excitement at

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the winfield bluegrass festival oh yeah that was fun really had

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a good time saw lots of friends the weather

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was kind of weird it was either incredibly hot

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or so rainy and lightningingly lightning ish what is it how do what's the word

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when there's lots of lightning there was so much lightning that that you either

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were melting and having heat stroke or they couldn't do the show because of

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danger so it did start a really

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interesting discussion between the idea of risk and chance.

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So luck and risk or bad luck and risk. I always see chance as kind of a negative thing.

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It was a very interesting discussion to have with, you know,

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just people like normal people.

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So I think risk, you have some agency over chance. You don't have agency over.

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So then we could, I mean, it was a really interesting discussion because we

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were talking about getting hit by lightning is, you know, you have agency.

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You probably, you know, don't stand in the middle of the field and fly a kite with a key on it.

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Ben Franklin, get in here, but also it's lightning.

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So it was a very interesting discussion, but we had a really good time.

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I was going to look up really quick, the name of this band that I thought was

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so good in Winfield that I can't remember the name of that to introduce you

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guys to because it's totally worth getting introduced to.

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And they were great. It seems like if I can do this correctly, let me think.

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It seems like they were from California.

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And they were kind of blue. They were definitely bluegrassy for sure. No question about it.

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But they were also really jazzy, kind of.

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And so that was interesting. I don't know.

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It seemed like a really good, it was fun. I mean, it was, we definitely had a really good time.

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And they played great stuff. I mean, really great stuff.

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Let me see. Can I find it? Oh, here's an article of everything that's ever happened at Winfield.

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All the bands that ever played there. Well, that's because everybody's played

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there. So that'll be kind of a list to everybody.

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AJ Lee and Blue Summit. I found it. Ha-ha.

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There it is. There were also other great bands that were fun to listen to,

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but I really enjoyed AJ Lee and Blue Summit.

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They were worth listening to, and it was a pretty darn fun time.

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And then I drove around. I really had a good weekend.

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I mean, it was a good time, but had by all, if you think about it,

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and that's a good way to do it.

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And so that is kind of the fun that was had.

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Today's podcast, we're going to have a – let's jump into it.

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You want to? That would be a good idea.

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So as much as it sounds like we should have a discussion on risk and chance,

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and maybe we, you and I should have this discussion on risk and chance.

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Today, I'm going to talk to you about a little thing that's been going on that

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I haven't talked about at all for lots of reasons.

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One is, is that the timing didn't seem right to talk about it,

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but it's now probably right.

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I just actually put a new book up and some of you found it clearly.

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And I don't know how I feel about that because I'm not really sure where I am on this book at all.

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I did some presentation, let's say a year ago. It was a while ago.

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And it became really clear to me that there's a part of the discussion around

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diffusing this new safety stuff,

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hop and all the sundried items that go with it, that is not being talked about very much.

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And I thought there was a need to talk about it. And it's really not – this

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book's really not a book about human performance practices and safety.

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It's really a book about how to create sustainable change in the organization.

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And the back story is that people were talking about how difficult it is to

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get an organization to change.

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Well, that's not new knowledge. It's hard. I mean, it's very difficult.

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Change is hard, and it's always hard.

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And because it's been hard a while, there's been a lot of great people in the

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world that have gone out and really done some work around this on how change happens.

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And that became really – it just became really obvious to me that that's part

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of the discussion that wasn't being had.

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And so I thought, well, I kind of feel like, not that I wanted to write a book,

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because that's not, I didn't have that problem.

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But I thought, I kind of, I felt sort of obliged, like I owe some thoughts on this.

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And so I thought, well, I'm going to try to put this book together,

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but I'm going to do it differently than I do other books.

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This one, I want to focus on how we look at change, but I want to do it with

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mostly just kind of a series of lists.

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I mean, just kind of bulleted lists that sort of review not my experience.

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Theory and work because it's not my theory and

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work but the theory and work of people who do who

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do lots of change like edgar shine whom we talk about all the time and peter

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senge if you don't know him you know there's tremendous amount of research and

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then everett rogers it keeps coming up in the diffusion of innovation and new

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ideas and i thought well you know that's he was my advisor.

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I mean, I know lots about that because I used to hang out with him. He comes to the house.

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I mean, it was, it's, he was a friend. I mean, so I had lots to talk about.

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So I thought I'm going to write this book.

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And so the book is entitled new ideas for old problems, a human performance

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approach to sustainable change.

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But it's not, it's not a book.

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It's just different. Like I'm noticing as I'm reading it for the audio book,

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because Because that's really an important thing to do.

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And so that's what I'm doing right now, actually. I stopped to actually record the podcast for the pod.

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This is a book that I thought, I'm not going to write this...

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With a bunch of case studies and talk about how the safety program diffused

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through the organization because they're always so different.

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I mean, there's not two that are going to be alike.

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What I'm going to do is focus on really some

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lists of things that will actually help people maybe trigger knowledge and trigger

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ideas and build a hunger to look at this more and to think about change not

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as something that's accidental,

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but as actually something that's kind of deliberate.

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The problem with thinking about change as deliberate is that the process of

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changing Changing has some very deliberate moments, but change itself happens

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kind of at its own rate of speed.

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And so I put this book together and it's not very long and the typeface is big.

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I think that's definitely a function of me getting older.

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But it's not a book that promises, it's not like the other books I've written. Let's just say that.

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But it is a book and it sounds like I'm making excuses. I'm not.

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I mean, it's a book that really talks about using lists and bulleted highlights

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on some things that are important when you think about change.

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And it's only it's in six chapters.

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There's an introduction to sort of produce this idea.

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Then we talk about the new safety ideas for old safety problems,

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which is kind of what we talk about all the time anyway.

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So that's not even terribly interesting. Then we talk about the speed at which

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change happens, the speed of improvement.

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And that discussion is a pretty interesting discussion because change happens

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not when you put it on the plan,

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not when you put the calendar together, not when you create the strategy,

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but change happens as people start changing. Right.

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And the one thing you don't have a tremendous amount of control over is how

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people take these new ideas in, think through these new ideas,

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and then start to practice these new ideas.

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That's happening at their rate of speed, not at your rate of speed.

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And so that's a really important discussion.

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And the other thing I'll tell you, just because I think it's worthwhile,

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is that your organization doesn't change as one thing because your organization

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is not one thing. It's kind of the origin of the word organization.

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There are many little individual parts that come together to perform some kind of function.

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That's the definition of the organization.

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Those individual little parts are going to move at their own rate of speed and in their own way.

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And so one part of your organization will move quicker and differently than

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another part of your organization that may move slower and more methodically.

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Then the fourth chapter, we talk about leadership success will take an organizational change.

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So they're really connected. How leaders respond and how change happens aren't separate things.

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One creates the other, and it's kind of like a cycle.

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It's like an endless loop that as leaders understand and change what they want

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from the organization, the organization begins to understand and change what

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it gives to leadership, and the cycle continues.

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On and on and on and on. But one of the ways you can get different outcomes

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is to ask different questions.

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So one of the ways organizations can change is in fact by managing or strategizing

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or measuring or monitoring or asking for different things.

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So that connection between leadership and change is really an important part of the process.

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Then the fifth chapter talks about the fact that the change is a journey of

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continuous improvement, which that's a term you've used your whole career.

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I mean, that's a term that's maybe a little bit tired and worn out,

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but it's actually a really pretty good way to talk about how organizations function

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and organizations that are vital and effective,

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and usually that means profitable and provide high-value, critical products,

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make the world a better and different place, those organizations are vital because

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they're continuously improving.

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They're constantly getting better.

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And then the final chapter is just a kind of a list of things that I thought

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were kind of important to include, but don't really need a lot of discussion,

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like start immediately.

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I don't know what else you say other than once you say start immediately, what do you say?

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Do you define what start means and then what immediately means and then rephrase

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it in three different languages?

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They're just tidbits of information that are taken from the body of knowledge

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that exists out there around organizational change that I thought were most

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profound and probably most important

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but read that with a grain of salt to actually making change happen.

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And that's kind of the entire book. It's a little, it's not very,

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I mean, it's not big. It's not scary.

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It has a pretty cool cover. I like the cover, but you shouldn't judge a book by its cover.

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But that's the discussion. And what this does is not through a series of stories,

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not through a series of case studies, which would have been,

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I mean, that's a great book and someone should write it.

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But it's kind of the beginning conversation of sustainability.

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And that's a pretty important conversation to have because one of the big lessons

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that I learned over and over again is that change is not permanent and improvement is not permanent.

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And so when we talk about sustainability, we're not talking about once we get

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to point X, we're there and can move on to point Y.

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No, organizations ebb and flow. They move forwards and backwards.

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And that's pretty normal. And because that's pretty normal, that's kind of how things work.

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And so that becomes kind of depressing.

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And there is kind of a depressing angle to this, but also kind of exciting.

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And you'll see I use a piece of Greek mythology.

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I don't use it well, but I use a piece of Greek mythology to really talk through

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the potential frustration that everyone has in trying to get an organization to get better.

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And it is kind of a big job. And what's amazing is you work really,

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really hard and you gain ground and then you lose ground and then you gain ground

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and then you lose ground and it happens over and over again.

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And so that is important to recognize early because one of the things that maturity

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and experience gives you is a pretty realistic understanding that the idea of

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creating continuous improvement is just that.

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It's a continuous effort to get better. And so think about it,

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not necessarily organizationally, but think about it in your own personal life,

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that you're kind of on this constant journey of getting better,

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getting smarter, getting faster, getting thinner, getting healthier, getting better.

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And that it's a continuous journey. And that journey is best defined by saying

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there are periods of great success followed by periods where the effort ebbs

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and we backslide a little and that that's normal.

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And what the scholars in this field talk about is how we have to try to backslide

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less each time and that that is, in fact, an improvement.

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And so that's a really interesting discussion. And then finally,

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and I kind of teased this earlier, finally, there's a really nice discussion

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with the theory of diffusion of innovation,

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which is kind of really important.

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And you've heard about it before, because it's a big part of the discussion

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of how organizations and new ideas happen.

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And it comes from this guy, Everett Rogers. And you've probably seen his work.

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He's got a little chart he's drawn. And that chart sort of helps us understand

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how people diffuse information.

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And he's got...

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And really, there's five categories of people. They're not really categories.

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He divides the organization up into five distinct types of people.

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And his research is great. I mean, we talk about it a bunch.

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It actually comes from the study of hybrid seed corn.

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But what he did is he looked at how new ideas spread out.

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And he said, it's really interesting. There's a small percentage of people that he calls innovators.

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And those are the people that are trying everything new all the time.

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They've got the best cell phone and the coolest car and the latest computer

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and the latest pen and the latest notebook and the latest tablet.

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They're innovators. And that's a pretty small group of people,

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but your organization definitely has innovators in it.

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And those people try things early. early

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they know stuff will fail and they know that nothing's

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permanent they're really comfortable with that but what they're interested

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in is what are the newest latest ideas and

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so those people those innovators they need one strategy to help change and that

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strategy is very different from the other four categories the second category

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talks about our early adopters so they're right on the heels of the innovator.

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They wait for the innovator to buy the new tablet.

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They look at it and they think, I need one of those. And they go out and get

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one almost immediately.

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And early adopters are a larger percentage of the organization.

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In fact, there's probably, you know, almost 20% of the organization is either

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an innovator or an early adopter.

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So that's a pretty large chunk of the organization.

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Once the early adopters get it, then Rogers talks about something called the early majority.

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And then he talks about the late majority.

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And between the early majority and the late majority, that's about another 70% of the organization.

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So the bulk of your organization is really pretty good with changing.

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The early ones, the innovators change very quickly the next day.

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There are the adopters change within the next week.

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The early majority changes within the next month.

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I'm making these times up. And the late majority follows within the following

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month, and you've got almost 90% of the organization with you.

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And then he talks about the last final 10% or so, and he calls them the laggards.

00:19:17.492 --> 00:19:23.112
And those are the people who change is hard for, and they're going to wait and

00:19:23.112 --> 00:19:27.112
test the theory and see what happens and see where it goes.

00:19:27.112 --> 00:19:34.392
And you have to strategize change, like a safety change, like moving safety

00:19:34.392 --> 00:19:36.152
from a program to a practice.

00:19:36.492 --> 00:19:41.932
You have to strategize a new and different way to approach safety,

00:19:42.172 --> 00:19:49.172
knowing that all of those populations will accept this information and process

00:19:49.172 --> 00:19:53.792
this information and begin to practice this information at different rates.

00:19:53.792 --> 00:19:58.712
And about 10% of your organization is going to really drag at the bottom.

00:19:59.152 --> 00:20:04.512
And so he talks about how some strategies for changing that.

00:20:04.652 --> 00:20:10.672
And I thought those lists of strategies that he's talked about my whole academic

00:20:10.672 --> 00:20:15.952
career, and I've sat in a room and talked with him about it a million times,

00:20:16.192 --> 00:20:18.292
probably more likely with Ev.

00:20:18.412 --> 00:20:21.492
We sat in a restaurant somewhere having lunch and talked about it.

00:20:21.512 --> 00:20:23.512
But nonetheless, that's still a room.

00:20:24.192 --> 00:20:30.352
Those changes are really important as well. And that's kind of what this little book is doing.

00:20:31.372 --> 00:20:38.032
It's just a list of information. And I'm noticing as I read it out loud that

00:20:38.032 --> 00:20:43.792
it's maybe the first book I've ever written that I think makes more sense in

00:20:43.792 --> 00:20:46.292
audiobook than it does in the printed version,

00:20:46.492 --> 00:20:55.172
which I don't know what that means, but I'm noticing I like it better as I hear it than as I read it.

00:20:55.512 --> 00:20:58.892
And I kind of think it's just how, how information is given.

00:20:58.932 --> 00:21:03.632
I'm really trying to give this information to you in a new way and we'll see

00:21:03.632 --> 00:21:05.052
if it works. It's just an experiment.

00:21:05.872 --> 00:21:09.812
It's I'm, I'm just trying it, but I felt like it, the message was important

00:21:09.812 --> 00:21:12.332
and it's a message that I owed you.

00:21:12.392 --> 00:21:15.832
And so here it is that that's what that book is set up to do.

00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:21.040
Music.

00:21:21.511 --> 00:21:27.471
So it's called New Ideas for Old Problems, A Human Performance Approach to Sustainable

00:21:27.471 --> 00:21:30.311
Change, and it's available any place you buy stuff.

00:21:30.551 --> 00:21:34.171
And the audio book will be out really soon, I promise, because I'm sitting here

00:21:34.171 --> 00:21:35.451
reading it even as we speak.

00:21:35.551 --> 00:21:41.331
In fact, I took a break from reading the audio book to tell you about this book for the pod.

00:21:41.771 --> 00:21:45.091
So that's good. I hope everything's going great for you.

00:21:45.411 --> 00:21:51.031
It's a time of transition. It always is. This is a transitional time for weather

00:21:51.031 --> 00:21:55.931
and seasons, but it's also kind of a transitional time for organizations.

00:21:56.051 --> 00:21:59.791
It's always kind of an interesting time this time of year.

00:21:59.911 --> 00:22:04.471
It's maybe one of my favorite times of year because it is kind of transitional.

00:22:04.691 --> 00:22:07.891
And this is sort of when change starts to happen.

00:22:08.331 --> 00:22:13.211
And as we walk down this trail together, like we've done many times before,

00:22:13.491 --> 00:22:15.911
I'm kind of glad we're doing it.

00:22:16.191 --> 00:22:21.631
To me, when I get really frustrated and I think, oh man,

00:22:21.911 --> 00:22:26.411
I just remember that the work we're doing is done for the right reasons and

00:22:26.411 --> 00:22:33.011
it's good work and you're making the world a better place and you're good at

00:22:33.011 --> 00:22:36.591
it and we get to hang out together and talk about it. So that's good.

00:22:36.891 --> 00:22:39.891
Lots more coming up. I'm super excited about the pod.

00:22:40.111 --> 00:22:42.911
I mean, there's pretty interesting stuff coming up.

00:22:42.931 --> 00:22:47.131
It's really interesting stuff coming up that I'm not supposed to talk about

00:22:47.131 --> 00:22:54.811
until it's formalized, but I'm very excited about that and kind of everything else we're doing.

00:22:54.951 --> 00:22:58.631
So with that, I think that's what we're going to talk about.

00:22:58.711 --> 00:23:02.591
I hope you had a good walk with the dog or a good drive to work or whatever

00:23:02.591 --> 00:23:03.991
you do when you listen to the podcast.

00:23:04.311 --> 00:23:09.091
And I hope you at least kind of check this book out and look at it and see what you think.

00:23:10.811 --> 00:23:13.931
It's We'll see if it worked or not. It's kind of up to you to figure that out

00:23:13.931 --> 00:23:15.231
because I can't answer that question.

00:23:15.531 --> 00:23:18.931
Until then, learn something new every single day. Have as much fun as you possibly

00:23:18.931 --> 00:23:20.611
can. Be good to each other.

00:23:21.131 --> 00:23:24.231
Be kind. And for goodness sakes, you guys, be safe.

00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:35.065
Music.