PAPod 516 - New Ideas for Old Problems: Navigating Sustainable Change

WEBVTT 00:00:00.017 --> 00:00:07.577 Okay, let's take a break for about 16 minutes here and stop recording this audio for this audio book. 00:00:09.057 --> 00:00:11.877 Man, that is like, I don't know. 00:00:11.937 --> 00:00:15.697 It seems like that would be a really, like if you had to torture somebody, 00:00:15.837 --> 00:00:17.457 that would be a good way to do it. We'll be right back.

00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:29.360 Music. 00:00:28.277 --> 00:00:31.297 Hey everybody todd conklin pre-accident investigation 00:00:31.297 --> 00:00:34.357 podcast how are you it is so good 00:00:34.357 --> 00:00:37.017 to hear your happy voice and to spend 00:00:37.017 --> 00:00:39.937 time with you so i have lots of reporting to 00:00:39.937 --> 00:00:43.077 give you this week big excitement at 00:00:43.077 --> 00:00:46.577 the winfield bluegrass festival oh yeah that was fun really had 00:00:46.577 --> 00:00:49.917 a good time saw lots of friends the weather 00:00:49.917 --> 00:00:53.097 was kind of weird it was either incredibly hot 00:00:53.097 --> 00:00:59.997 or so rainy and lightningingly lightning ish what is it how do what's the word 00:00:59.997 --> 00:01:04.657 when there's lots of lightning there was so much lightning that that you either 00:01:04.657 --> 00:01:09.877 were melting and having heat stroke or they couldn't do the show because of 00:01:09.877 --> 00:01:12.577 danger so it did start a really 00:01:12.657 --> 00:01:16.837 interesting discussion between the idea of risk and chance. 00:01:17.477 --> 00:01:22.897 So luck and risk or bad luck and risk. I always see chance as kind of a negative thing.

00:01:23.017 --> 00:01:26.557 It was a very interesting discussion to have with, you know, 00:01:26.557 --> 00:01:28.277 just people like normal people. 00:01:28.757 --> 00:01:33.977 So I think risk, you have some agency over chance. You don't have agency over. 00:01:34.537 --> 00:01:40.537 So then we could, I mean, it was a really interesting discussion because we 00:01:40.537 --> 00:01:44.937 were talking about getting hit by lightning is, you know, you have agency.

00:01:45.057 --> 00:01:49.797 You probably, you know, don't stand in the middle of the field and fly a kite with a key on it. 00:01:50.197 --> 00:01:53.537 Ben Franklin, get in here, but also it's lightning. 00:01:53.777 --> 00:01:57.097 So it was a very interesting discussion, but we had a really good time. 00:01:57.277 --> 00:02:00.037 I was going to look up really quick, the name of this band that I thought was 00:02:00.037 --> 00:02:03.757 so good in Winfield that I can't remember the name of that to introduce you 00:02:03.757 --> 00:02:07.597 guys to because it's totally worth getting introduced to.

00:02:07.997 --> 00:02:15.757 And they were great. It seems like if I can do this correctly, let me think. 00:02:15.917 --> 00:02:18.997 It seems like they were from California. 00:02:20.996 --> 00:02:27.836 And they were kind of blue.

They were definitely bluegrassy for sure. No question about it. 00:02:28.016 --> 00:02:34.256 But they were also really jazzy, kind of. 00:02:35.336 --> 00:02:38.456 And so that was interesting.

I don't know. 00:02:39.216 --> 00:02:46.136 It seemed like a really good, it was fun. I mean, it was, we definitely had a really good time. 00:02:47.416 --> 00:02:50.876 And they played great stuff.

I mean, really great stuff. 00:02:51.316 --> 00:02:57.396 Let me see. Can I find it? Oh, here's an article of everything that's ever happened at Winfield.

00:02:57.956 --> 00:03:02.116 All the bands that ever played there. Well, that's because everybody's played 00:03:02.116 --> 00:03:05.776 there. So that'll be kind of a list to everybody. 00:03:08.816 --> 00:03:12.056 AJ Lee and Blue Summit.

I found it. Ha-ha. 00:03:12.436 --> 00:03:17.316 There it is. There were also other great bands that were fun to listen to, 00:03:17.316 --> 00:03:20.696 but I really enjoyed AJ Lee and Blue Summit.

00:03:20.836 --> 00:03:27.176 They were worth listening to, and it was a pretty darn fun time. 00:03:27.656 --> 00:03:31.116 And then I drove around. I really had a good weekend. 00:03:31.356 --> 00:03:35.656 I mean, it was a good time, but had by all, if you think about it, 00:03:35.676 --> 00:03:36.836 and that's a good way to do it.

00:03:37.056 --> 00:03:41.656 And so that is kind of the fun that was had. 00:03:42.236 --> 00:03:45.076 Today's podcast, we're going to have a – let's jump into it. 00:03:45.076 --> 00:03:46.236 You want to? That would be a good idea.

00:03:50.596 --> 00:03:54.156 So as much as it sounds like we should have a discussion on risk and chance, 00:03:54.296 --> 00:03:57.416 and maybe we, you and I should have this discussion on risk and chance. 00:03:57.736 --> 00:04:01.376 Today, I'm going to talk to you about a little thing that's been going on that 00:04:01.376 --> 00:04:04.276 I haven't talked about at all for lots of reasons. 00:04:04.316 --> 00:04:07.816 One is, is that the timing didn't seem right to talk about it, 00:04:07.876 --> 00:04:09.996 but it's now probably right. 00:04:10.096 --> 00:04:14.676 I just actually put a new book up and some of you found it clearly.

00:04:14.816 --> 00:04:20.136 And I don't know how I feel about that because I'm not really sure where I am on this book at all. 00:04:21.428 --> 00:04:27.328 I did some presentation, let's say a year ago. It was a while ago. 00:04:27.788 --> 00:04:34.588 And it became really clear to me that there's a part of the discussion around 00:04:34.588 --> 00:04:36.788 diffusing this new safety stuff, 00:04:37.028 --> 00:04:43.628 hop and all the sundried items that go with it, that is not being talked about very much.

00:04:43.768 --> 00:04:50.108 And I thought there was a need to talk about it. And it's really not – this 00:04:50.108 --> 00:04:54.808 book's really not a book about human performance practices and safety. 00:04:55.468 --> 00:05:04.228 It's really a book about how to create sustainable change in the organization. 00:05:04.748 --> 00:05:11.248 And the back story is that people were talking about how difficult it is to 00:05:11.248 --> 00:05:13.008 get an organization to change.

00:05:13.248 --> 00:05:17.868 Well, that's not new knowledge. It's hard. I mean, it's very difficult. 00:05:18.008 --> 00:05:20.188 Change is hard, and it's always hard.

00:05:20.348 --> 00:05:23.988 And because it's been hard a while, there's been a lot of great people in the 00:05:23.988 --> 00:05:30.008 world that have gone out and really done some work around this on how change happens. 00:05:30.348 --> 00:05:34.388 And that became really – it just became really obvious to me that that's part 00:05:34.388 --> 00:05:36.068 of the discussion that wasn't being had. 00:05:36.728 --> 00:05:41.888 And so I thought, well, I kind of feel like, not that I wanted to write a book, 00:05:41.928 --> 00:05:44.808 because that's not, I didn't have that problem. 00:05:45.328 --> 00:05:51.048 But I thought, I kind of, I felt sort of obliged, like I owe some thoughts on this.

00:05:51.188 --> 00:05:53.948 And so I thought, well, I'm going to try to put this book together, 00:05:54.008 --> 00:05:57.748 but I'm going to do it differently than I do other books. 00:05:57.848 --> 00:06:04.928 This one, I want to focus on how we look at change, but I want to do it with 00:06:04.928 --> 00:06:07.328 mostly just kind of a series of lists. 00:06:07.408 --> 00:06:15.188 I mean, just kind of bulleted lists that sort of review not my experience. 00:06:15.865 --> 00:06:18.685 Theory and work because it's not my theory and 00:06:18.685 --> 00:06:21.625 work but the theory and work of people who do who 00:06:21.625 --> 00:06:25.965 do lots of change like edgar shine whom we talk about all the time and peter 00:06:25.965 --> 00:06:30.805 senge if you don't know him you know there's tremendous amount of research and 00:06:30.805 --> 00:06:37.225 then everett rogers it keeps coming up in the diffusion of innovation and new 00:06:37.225 --> 00:06:40.785 ideas and i thought well you know that's he was my advisor.

00:06:40.985 --> 00:06:46.525 I mean, I know lots about that because I used to hang out with him. He comes to the house. 00:06:46.685 --> 00:06:50.365 I mean, it was, it's, he was a friend. I mean, so I had lots to talk about.

00:06:50.385 --> 00:06:52.725 So I thought I'm going to write this book. 00:06:52.825 --> 00:06:58.625 And so the book is entitled new ideas for old problems, a human performance 00:06:58.625 --> 00:07:01.165 approach to sustainable change. 00:07:01.745 --> 00:07:04.425 But it's not, it's not a book. 00:07:05.365 --> 00:07:09.345 It's just different.

Like I'm noticing as I'm reading it for the audio book, 00:07:09.445 --> 00:07:12.225 because Because that's really an important thing to do. 00:07:12.385 --> 00:07:19.685 And so that's what I'm doing right now, actually. I stopped to actually record the podcast for the pod. 00:07:20.545 --> 00:07:24.665 This is a book that I thought, I'm not going to write this...

00:07:25.534 --> 00:07:31.294 With a bunch of case studies and talk about how the safety program diffused 00:07:31.294 --> 00:07:34.574 through the organization because they're always so different. 00:07:34.734 --> 00:07:37.334 I mean, there's not two that are going to be alike. 00:07:37.934 --> 00:07:41.334 What I'm going to do is focus on really some 00:07:41.334 --> 00:07:50.734 lists of things that will actually help people maybe trigger knowledge and trigger 00:07:50.734 --> 00:07:58.634 ideas and build a hunger to look at this more and to think about change not 00:07:58.634 --> 00:08:00.234 as something that's accidental, 00:08:00.474 --> 00:08:03.534 but as actually something that's kind of deliberate. 00:08:03.714 --> 00:08:08.234 The problem with thinking about change as deliberate is that the process of 00:08:08.234 --> 00:08:13.674 changing Changing has some very deliberate moments, but change itself happens 00:08:13.674 --> 00:08:15.434 kind of at its own rate of speed.

00:08:15.874 --> 00:08:22.714 And so I put this book together and it's not very long and the typeface is big. 00:08:22.894 --> 00:08:25.454 I think that's definitely a function of me getting older. 00:08:25.974 --> 00:08:32.854 But it's not a book that promises, it's not like the other books I've written. Let's just say that.

00:08:33.114 --> 00:08:36.154 But it is a book and it sounds like I'm making excuses. I'm not. 00:08:36.154 --> 00:08:42.674 I mean, it's a book that really talks about using lists and bulleted highlights 00:08:42.674 --> 00:08:45.814 on some things that are important when you think about change. 00:08:45.954 --> 00:08:48.394 And it's only it's in six chapters.

00:08:48.694 --> 00:08:51.934 There's an introduction to sort of produce this idea. 00:08:52.674 --> 00:08:57.374 Then we talk about the new safety ideas for old safety problems, 00:08:57.654 --> 00:09:00.394 which is kind of what we talk about all the time anyway. 00:09:00.494 --> 00:09:05.234 So that's not even terribly interesting. Then we talk about the speed at which 00:09:05.234 --> 00:09:07.374 change happens, the speed of improvement.

00:09:07.834 --> 00:09:13.494 And that discussion is a pretty interesting discussion because change happens 00:09:13.494 --> 00:09:16.474 not when you put it on the plan, 00:09:16.754 --> 00:09:21.074 not when you put the calendar together, not when you create the strategy, 00:09:21.214 --> 00:09:25.454 but change happens as people start changing. Right. 00:09:26.047 --> 00:09:30.127 And the one thing you don't have a tremendous amount of control over is how 00:09:30.127 --> 00:09:35.747 people take these new ideas in, think through these new ideas, 00:09:35.987 --> 00:09:38.407 and then start to practice these new ideas. 00:09:38.587 --> 00:09:43.007 That's happening at their rate of speed, not at your rate of speed.

00:09:43.207 --> 00:09:44.867 And so that's a really important discussion. 00:09:45.187 --> 00:09:47.827 And the other thing I'll tell you, just because I think it's worthwhile, 00:09:48.187 --> 00:09:53.387 is that your organization doesn't change as one thing because your organization 00:09:53.387 --> 00:09:56.747 is not one thing. It's kind of the origin of the word organization. 00:09:57.447 --> 00:10:03.267 There are many little individual parts that come together to perform some kind of function.

00:10:03.367 --> 00:10:05.967 That's the definition of the organization. 00:10:06.567 --> 00:10:12.807 Those individual little parts are going to move at their own rate of speed and in their own way. 00:10:12.907 --> 00:10:18.967 And so one part of your organization will move quicker and differently than 00:10:18.967 --> 00:10:23.827 another part of your organization that may move slower and more methodically. 00:10:23.827 --> 00:10:33.627 Then the fourth chapter, we talk about leadership success will take an organizational change.

00:10:34.167 --> 00:10:42.947 So they're really connected. How leaders respond and how change happens aren't separate things. 00:10:43.687 --> 00:10:47.447 One creates the other, and it's kind of like a cycle. 00:10:47.447 --> 00:10:53.707 It's like an endless loop that as leaders understand and change what they want 00:10:53.707 --> 00:10:58.367 from the organization, the organization begins to understand and change what 00:10:58.367 --> 00:11:01.947 it gives to leadership, and the cycle continues.

00:11:03.047 --> 00:11:07.687 On and on and on and on. But one of the ways you can get different outcomes 00:11:07.687 --> 00:11:09.927 is to ask different questions. 00:11:10.747 --> 00:11:19.367 So one of the ways organizations can change is in fact by managing or strategizing 00:11:19.367 --> 00:11:24.187 or measuring or monitoring or asking for different things. 00:11:24.367 --> 00:11:30.187 So that connection between leadership and change is really an important part of the process.

00:11:30.947 --> 00:11:36.687 Then the fifth chapter talks about the fact that the change is a journey of 00:11:36.687 --> 00:11:40.827 continuous improvement, which that's a term you've used your whole career. 00:11:41.007 --> 00:11:45.627 I mean, that's a term that's maybe a little bit tired and worn out, 00:11:45.707 --> 00:11:51.807 but it's actually a really pretty good way to talk about how organizations function 00:11:51.807 --> 00:11:55.327 and organizations that are vital and effective, 00:11:55.587 --> 00:12:01.607 and usually that means profitable and provide high-value, critical products, 00:12:02.267 --> 00:12:07.347 make the world a better and different place, those organizations are vital because 00:12:07.347 --> 00:12:09.907 they're continuously improving. 00:12:10.127 --> 00:12:12.247 They're constantly getting better. 00:12:12.527 --> 00:12:18.627 And then the final chapter is just a kind of a list of things that I thought 00:12:18.627 --> 00:12:24.407 were kind of important to include, but don't really need a lot of discussion, 00:12:24.687 --> 00:12:25.887 like start immediately.

00:12:26.507 --> 00:12:30.267 I don't know what else you say other than once you say start immediately, what do you say? 00:12:30.287 --> 00:12:35.007 Do you define what start means and then what immediately means and then rephrase 00:12:35.007 --> 00:12:36.227 it in three different languages? 00:12:36.707 --> 00:12:41.427 They're just tidbits of information that are taken from the body of knowledge 00:12:41.427 --> 00:12:46.447 that exists out there around organizational change that I thought were most 00:12:46.447 --> 00:12:49.567 profound and probably most important 00:12:49.567 --> 00:12:55.967 but read that with a grain of salt to actually making change happen. 00:12:56.844 --> 00:12:59.944 And that's kind of the entire book.

It's a little, it's not very, 00:13:00.044 --> 00:13:01.684 I mean, it's not big. It's not scary. 00:13:01.884 --> 00:13:06.564 It has a pretty cool cover. I like the cover, but you shouldn't judge a book by its cover.

00:13:06.904 --> 00:13:13.484 But that's the discussion. And what this does is not through a series of stories, 00:13:13.644 --> 00:13:16.904 not through a series of case studies, which would have been, 00:13:16.944 --> 00:13:19.044 I mean, that's a great book and someone should write it. 00:13:19.664 --> 00:13:24.924 But it's kind of the beginning conversation of sustainability. 00:13:24.924 --> 00:13:30.084 And that's a pretty important conversation to have because one of the big lessons 00:13:30.084 --> 00:13:38.044 that I learned over and over again is that change is not permanent and improvement is not permanent.

00:13:38.444 --> 00:13:42.644 And so when we talk about sustainability, we're not talking about once we get 00:13:42.644 --> 00:13:45.624 to point X, we're there and can move on to point Y. 00:13:46.164 --> 00:13:50.704 No, organizations ebb and flow. They move forwards and backwards. 00:13:51.044 --> 00:13:57.184 And that's pretty normal.

And because that's pretty normal, that's kind of how things work. 00:13:57.744 --> 00:14:02.044 And so that becomes kind of depressing. 00:14:02.704 --> 00:14:08.204 And there is kind of a depressing angle to this, but also kind of exciting. 00:14:08.204 --> 00:14:12.544 And you'll see I use a piece of Greek mythology.

00:14:12.744 --> 00:14:18.524 I don't use it well, but I use a piece of Greek mythology to really talk through 00:14:18.524 --> 00:14:27.064 the potential frustration that everyone has in trying to get an organization to get better. 00:14:27.344 --> 00:14:33.464 And it is kind of a big job. And what's amazing is you work really, 00:14:33.564 --> 00:14:38.284 really hard and you gain ground and then you lose ground and then you gain ground 00:14:38.284 --> 00:14:41.644 and then you lose ground and it happens over and over again. 00:14:41.944 --> 00:14:48.964 And so that is important to recognize early because one of the things that maturity 00:14:48.964 --> 00:14:56.184 and experience gives you is a pretty realistic understanding that the idea of 00:14:56.184 --> 00:14:58.684 creating continuous improvement is just that.

00:14:59.734 --> 00:15:04.814 It's a continuous effort to get better. And so think about it, 00:15:04.834 --> 00:15:10.434 not necessarily organizationally, but think about it in your own personal life, 00:15:11.314 --> 00:15:15.854 that you're kind of on this constant journey of getting better, 00:15:16.054 --> 00:15:21.894 getting smarter, getting faster, getting thinner, getting healthier, getting better. 00:15:22.834 --> 00:15:28.714 And that it's a continuous journey. And that journey is best defined by saying 00:15:28.714 --> 00:15:36.274 there are periods of great success followed by periods where the effort ebbs 00:15:36.274 --> 00:15:41.194 and we backslide a little and that that's normal.

00:15:41.574 --> 00:15:49.774 And what the scholars in this field talk about is how we have to try to backslide 00:15:49.774 --> 00:15:55.174 less each time and that that is, in fact, an improvement. 00:15:55.574 --> 00:15:59.254 And so that's a really interesting discussion. And then finally, 00:15:59.394 --> 00:16:03.634 and I kind of teased this earlier, finally, there's a really nice discussion 00:16:03.634 --> 00:16:08.594 with the theory of diffusion of innovation, 00:16:08.854 --> 00:16:12.614 which is kind of really important. 00:16:12.614 --> 00:16:17.534 And you've heard about it before, because it's a big part of the discussion 00:16:17.534 --> 00:16:20.774 of how organizations and new ideas happen.

00:16:21.294 --> 00:16:25.654 And it comes from this guy, Everett Rogers. And you've probably seen his work. 00:16:26.554 --> 00:16:31.514 He's got a little chart he's drawn. And that chart sort of helps us understand 00:16:31.514 --> 00:16:35.874 how people diffuse information.

00:16:36.654 --> 00:16:37.654 And he's got... 00:16:38.435 --> 00:16:45.035 And really, there's five categories of people. They're not really categories. 00:16:45.735 --> 00:16:52.095 He divides the organization up into five distinct types of people.

00:16:52.475 --> 00:16:55.735 And his research is great. I mean, we talk about it a bunch. 00:16:55.815 --> 00:16:59.755 It actually comes from the study of hybrid seed corn. 00:17:00.035 --> 00:17:04.255 But what he did is he looked at how new ideas spread out.

00:17:04.575 --> 00:17:11.535 And he said, it's really interesting. There's a small percentage of people that he calls innovators. 00:17:11.995 --> 00:17:15.495 And those are the people that are trying everything new all the time. 00:17:15.555 --> 00:17:19.555 They've got the best cell phone and the coolest car and the latest computer 00:17:19.555 --> 00:17:23.775 and the latest pen and the latest notebook and the latest tablet.

00:17:24.275 --> 00:17:27.035 They're innovators. And that's a pretty small group of people, 00:17:27.075 --> 00:17:29.275 but your organization definitely has innovators in it. 00:17:29.555 --> 00:17:33.195 And those people try things early. early 00:17:33.195 --> 00:17:36.295 they know stuff will fail and they know that nothing's 00:17:36.295 --> 00:17:39.255 permanent they're really comfortable with that but what they're interested 00:17:39.255 --> 00:17:42.955 in is what are the newest latest ideas and 00:17:42.955 --> 00:17:50.155 so those people those innovators they need one strategy to help change and that 00:17:50.155 --> 00:17:54.595 strategy is very different from the other four categories the second category 00:17:54.595 --> 00:17:59.495 talks about our early adopters so they're right on the heels of the innovator.

00:17:59.515 --> 00:18:01.595 They wait for the innovator to buy the new tablet. 00:18:02.235 --> 00:18:05.095 They look at it and they think, I need one of those. And they go out and get 00:18:05.095 --> 00:18:05.955 one almost immediately. 00:18:06.655 --> 00:18:10.655 And early adopters are a larger percentage of the organization.

00:18:10.895 --> 00:18:17.495 In fact, there's probably, you know, almost 20% of the organization is either 00:18:17.495 --> 00:18:19.715 an innovator or an early adopter. 00:18:20.355 --> 00:18:23.575 So that's a pretty large chunk of the organization. 00:18:24.295 --> 00:18:29.455 Once the early adopters get it, then Rogers talks about something called the early majority. 00:18:30.255 --> 00:18:32.515 And then he talks about the late majority.

00:18:33.592 --> 00:18:41.532 And between the early majority and the late majority, that's about another 70% of the organization. 00:18:42.032 --> 00:18:47.952 So the bulk of your organization is really pretty good with changing. 00:18:48.432 --> 00:18:53.372 The early ones, the innovators change very quickly the next day. 00:18:53.712 --> 00:18:56.312 There are the adopters change within the next week.

00:18:56.752 --> 00:19:00.432 The early majority changes within the next month. 00:19:00.532 --> 00:19:04.552 I'm making these times up. And the late majority follows within the following 00:19:04.552 --> 00:19:09.432 month, and you've got almost 90% of the organization with you. 00:19:09.932 --> 00:19:16.872 And then he talks about the last final 10% or so, and he calls them the laggards.

00:19:17.492 --> 00:19:23.112 And those are the people who change is hard for, and they're going to wait and 00:19:23.112 --> 00:19:27.112 test the theory and see what happens and see where it goes. 00:19:27.112 --> 00:19:34.392 And you have to strategize change, like a safety change, like moving safety 00:19:34.392 --> 00:19:36.152 from a program to a practice. 00:19:36.492 --> 00:19:41.932 You have to strategize a new and different way to approach safety, 00:19:42.172 --> 00:19:49.172 knowing that all of those populations will accept this information and process 00:19:49.172 --> 00:19:53.792 this information and begin to practice this information at different rates. 00:19:53.792 --> 00:19:58.712 And about 10% of your organization is going to really drag at the bottom.

00:19:59.152 --> 00:20:04.512 And so he talks about how some strategies for changing that. 00:20:04.652 --> 00:20:10.672 And I thought those lists of strategies that he's talked about my whole academic 00:20:10.672 --> 00:20:15.952 career, and I've sat in a room and talked with him about it a million times, 00:20:16.192 --> 00:20:18.292 probably more likely with Ev. 00:20:18.412 --> 00:20:21.492 We sat in a restaurant somewhere having lunch and talked about it. 00:20:21.512 --> 00:20:23.512 But nonetheless, that's still a room.

00:20:24.192 --> 00:20:30.352 Those changes are really important as well. And that's kind of what this little book is doing. 00:20:31.372 --> 00:20:38.032 It's just a list of information. And I'm noticing as I read it out loud that 00:20:38.032 --> 00:20:43.792 it's maybe the first book I've ever written that I think makes more sense in 00:20:43.792 --> 00:20:46.292 audiobook than it does in the printed version, 00:20:46.492 --> 00:20:55.172 which I don't know what that means, but I'm noticing I like it better as I hear it than as I read it.

00:20:55.512 --> 00:20:58.892 And I kind of think it's just how, how information is given. 00:20:58.932 --> 00:21:03.632 I'm really trying to give this information to you in a new way and we'll see 00:21:03.632 --> 00:21:05.052 if it works. It's just an experiment. 00:21:05.872 --> 00:21:09.812 It's I'm, I'm just trying it, but I felt like it, the message was important 00:21:09.812 --> 00:21:12.332 and it's a message that I owed you.

00:21:12.392 --> 00:21:15.832 And so here it is that that's what that book is set up to do. 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:21.040 Music. 00:21:21.511 --> 00:21:27.471 So it's called New Ideas for Old Problems, A Human Performance Approach to Sustainable 00:21:27.471 --> 00:21:30.311 Change, and it's available any place you buy stuff. 00:21:30.551 --> 00:21:34.171 And the audio book will be out really soon, I promise, because I'm sitting here 00:21:34.171 --> 00:21:35.451 reading it even as we speak.

00:21:35.551 --> 00:21:41.331 In fact, I took a break from reading the audio book to tell you about this book for the pod. 00:21:41.771 --> 00:21:45.091 So that's good. I hope everything's going great for you. 00:21:45.411 --> 00:21:51.031 It's a time of transition.

It always is. This is a transitional time for weather 00:21:51.031 --> 00:21:55.931 and seasons, but it's also kind of a transitional time for organizations. 00:21:56.051 --> 00:21:59.791 It's always kind of an interesting time this time of year. 00:21:59.911 --> 00:22:04.471 It's maybe one of my favorite times of year because it is kind of transitional.

00:22:04.691 --> 00:22:07.891 And this is sort of when change starts to happen. 00:22:08.331 --> 00:22:13.211 And as we walk down this trail together, like we've done many times before, 00:22:13.491 --> 00:22:15.911 I'm kind of glad we're doing it. 00:22:16.191 --> 00:22:21.631 To me, when I get really frustrated and I think, oh man, 00:22:21.911 --> 00:22:26.411 I just remember that the work we're doing is done for the right reasons and 00:22:26.411 --> 00:22:33.011 it's good work and you're making the world a better place and you're good at 00:22:33.011 --> 00:22:36.591 it and we get to hang out together and talk about it. So that's good.

00:22:36.891 --> 00:22:39.891 Lots more coming up. I'm super excited about the pod. 00:22:40.111 --> 00:22:42.911 I mean, there's pretty interesting stuff coming up. 00:22:42.931 --> 00:22:47.131 It's really interesting stuff coming up that I'm not supposed to talk about 00:22:47.131 --> 00:22:54.811 until it's formalized, but I'm very excited about that and kind of everything else we're doing.

00:22:54.951 --> 00:22:58.631 So with that, I think that's what we're going to talk about. 00:22:58.711 --> 00:23:02.591 I hope you had a good walk with the dog or a good drive to work or whatever 00:23:02.591 --> 00:23:03.991 you do when you listen to the podcast. 00:23:04.311 --> 00:23:09.091 And I hope you at least kind of check this book out and look at it and see what you think. 00:23:10.811 --> 00:23:13.931 It's We'll see if it worked or not.

It's kind of up to you to figure that out 00:23:13.931 --> 00:23:15.231 because I can't answer that question. 00:23:15.531 --> 00:23:18.931 Until then, learn something new every single day. Have as much fun as you possibly 00:23:18.931 --> 00:23:20.611 can. Be good to each other.

00:23:21.131 --> 00:23:24.231 Be kind. And for goodness sakes, you guys, be safe. 00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:35.065 Music.