PAPod 519 - Good Gets Better, Bad Gets Worse: Navigating Change and Safety

Show Transcript

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Good gets better, and bad gets worse. We're so sad.

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Music.

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Hey everybody, Todd Conklin, Pre-Accident Investigation Podcast.

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How are you? It's time once again for an exciting podcast.

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So, what did you think about last week's podcast? Hmm.

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Huh? Hmm. I've gotten a lot of feedback from it.

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And it's been actually, for the most part, completely positive, which is good.

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I was really pleased to get to do it. And I hope you found it interesting.

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If you haven't listened, it's probably worthwhile to go back and listen.

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It was an interesting discussion with the OSHA administrator,

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the assistant secretary of labor of the United States of America,

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who does occupational safety and health.

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And so he's the administrator for Doug is the administrator.

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He said I could call him Doug. I'm not rubbing that in you guys, but that's how it goes.

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But I hope you found the pod interesting and enlightening.

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I was looking for some indicators of what's up to come, what's around the corner, what's in the future.

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I don't think I dug into that enough, but the timing was what the timing was.

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But I could ask anything. I mean, no pre-prepared. They were totally open.

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They didn't want to hear what questions I was going to ask. They just wanted

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to chat. It was just an opportunity to talk.

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And that's what we did. And it went really well. And I had a good time.

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And I hope you enjoyed it immensely.

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That would be the key, that you had a good time listening to it.

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There's lots more great stuff coming up. How's everything with you?

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It's getting to be the crazy time of year.

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The good thing about this crazy time of year is that it's generally crazy globally.

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So there's just a lot going on no matter where you are, whichever hemisphere you're hanging out in.

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There's craziness going on. In the United States, it's especially nutty because

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this is the time of our season when we have an election that is soon around the corner,

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which means there have been 500 million texts received by telephones across

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the United States and probably a bazillion and a half. maybe I'm, that's rough estimate.

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It could be a plus or minus two, a bazillion and a half plus or minus two spam

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phone calls that you don't answer.

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At least if your phone is anything like my phone.

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So, but it's, it's also an interesting time just because it's,

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this is kind of when stuff happens and work's going crazy.

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And depending on where you are, there's big discussions of budgets and I'm getting

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visitors from, from people who care about income taxes and stuff like that.

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And so, yeah, it's, it's a pretty zany time to be alive. That is for sure.

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Things are good. I mean, I'm still on the same bicycle and I'm gutting it out,

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still riding as much as I put.

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In fact, I'm about to go on a bike ride as soon as I finish talking to you.

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So that's a little plan, even though it's a little bit chillier here because

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it's fall, it's autumn for us.

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But as I've told you before a million times, autumn in New Mexico is maybe the

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best time of the whole year because the place just smells good.

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And they're roasting chilies, green chilies, and they roast them in this big

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roasting machine in front of stores.

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And what they're doing when they roast them is they're cooking the chili pepper, the vegetable.

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But what they're really doing is roasting it with a pretty hot flame to burn

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the skin of the chili pepper off the chili.

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And so then they take them out of that roaster. So that'll take maybe,

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I'll make up a time, but like seven and a half minutes to roast them.

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And they put them in a drum that's made of expanded steel. So it looks like a screen.

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And it's got these torches that torch the chilies.

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And they hand crank them. Well, some fancy places have motors,

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but most of the places I go to, you know, you hand crank it and you roast it for seven minutes or so.

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And then you take it and dump it in a bag and tie the bag shut as tightly as

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you can and let them sweat.

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Make them sweat. Make them sweat.

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And then after the chili's cooled down so you can handle them and they've sweated

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in that bag for a pretty good long time, not too long because that would be weird.

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Then you pull them out and peel the chili, which is pretty easy to do because you've just roasted it.

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And then you re-bag them into smaller bags and freeze them and they can become

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enchiladas or green chili cheeseburgers or whatever you want to do with the

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chili for the whole rest of the year.

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And it's kind of interesting when you put chilies up like that because it's

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traditionally something everybody does.

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So it's, at least in my community, it's a real shared event.

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And we all do it and we all talk about it. And there are really good chilies at this place.

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And, oh, don't buy the chilies at this place this year.

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And these are hot and these are not as hot and these are mild.

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And then you serve them the whole year and you hope you get enough.

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It's less of a problem now because you can buy them at the store. So it's not a giant deal.

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But in the old days, you kind of had to get enough because if you didn't have

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enough, then there weren't enough.

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So chili roasting is going on right now.

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And then there's a giant balloon fiesta in a city named Albuquerque that's really fun.

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And then just all sorts of things going on. I mean, it's a good time to be around.

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It's a very good time to be here. And I'm trying to practice being really more

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appreciative and make sure that I'm enjoying things the way I should be enjoying them.

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Because sometimes I think I get a little wrapped up in other stuff,

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you know, pressures and work and people who hates you now and who loves you

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now and that kind of stuff. It's very weird.

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I mean, that's all kind of a part of the journey. But nonetheless,

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it's an interesting time to be around.

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And it's a really interesting time to have chili. So next time you eat something

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with green chili, because it's available, geez, a lot of places now.

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You know that they were roasted and peeled, and the chili is the meat of the

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chili, and that's what they make the sauce, the gravy, as it were,

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out of the meat of the chili.

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So now you know kind of the backstory, and that's what's going on here.

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As for me, geez, it's been pretty interesting, lots of crazy events and meetings

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and getting to talk to people,

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and that's always super exciting because this is the time of year where people get together.

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And I do appreciate the ability for us to get together.

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I think the pandemic kind of made us realize how significant these meetings are.

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I think I used to kind of take them for granted or worse yet,

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kind of dread them a little. And now I see them as an opportunity to network and reconnect.

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So that's always fun. It's a good time. So that's pretty much the story here.

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How about you? Anything exciting going on?

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It's such an interesting time to be around just because, well,

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as you heard in that interview last week, the safety and reliability world, the world we live in,

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is definitely a world in the midst of change, and that change is starting to

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really have some impact.

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I mean, once the regulator starts talking about the change,

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That's a relatively significant indicator that this way of thinking has has

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found a way in to our organizations really throughout the globe in our case.

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And so this new discussion of, for instance, redefining safety as a as a capacity

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or thinking of safety, not as a program, but as a practice, you know,

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the difference between safety and safely.

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We've talked about this for years.

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Now that's kind of mainstream conversation.

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And what's amazing to me, and I'm desperately kind of searching for where this

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is all coming from, is the stories people are telling are quite successful.

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So you're hearing really interesting industry-wide stories of,

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for instance, reduction in fatality numbers.

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And that's always super encouraging. And we should really celebrate when that happens.

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Even the discussion about that, I think, makes a big difference because I've

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always said one of the challenges we have in our world is that we're not a hard science,

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so it's going to be hard to measure us like you'd measure mathematics or the

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temperature, a physics event.

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And because we're not a hard science, it's a lot of it is really it's really

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incumbent upon basically built upon confidence,

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the belief we can become better and the belief we can make improvement and then

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the capacity to actually do so.

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The resources, time, energy, effort, the ideas, the way people think,

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the paradigm, all of those things

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create what really creates the safest organizations we have in the world.

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And you know that because if you look at your organization, and that's always

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a good thing to do, understand that the safest part of your organization and

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the least safe part of your organization still coexist within your organization.

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So the difference isn't the organization. the difference has to look at sort

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of the culture and environment that's created to make that safety happen.

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And that's kind of what we should be talking about today, because that is directly

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tied to that opening quote.

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So you heard me say it, good gets better and bad gets worse.

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So let's talk about that a minute, because I think that's a pretty important

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thing for us to anchor on.

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I think it's important enough to make a podcast about.

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And, you know, I never don't have stuff to talk about.

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There's always a list of topics and ideas to share with you.

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So it's not like that I'm desperately searching for stuff. There's always stuff on the list.

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But I pushed this one a little farther ahead just because I've been thinking

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about this a lot. And this idea that good gets better and bad gets worse probably

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demands some further discussion.

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But I think it's a really important place to start when you think about your

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job within your organizations and how you're helping the organization improve.

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Because the bottom line is, without intervention, without doing anything,

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if you look at an organization that's doing well, chances are,

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if you wanted to predict the future,

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organizations that are doing good will get better at doing good.

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And organizations that are not doing good, without any kind of intervention,

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without any kind of interruption, without going in and doing something to that

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group, an organization that's not doing well will get worse.

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And so even though the future is an incredibly difficult thing to predict,

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and it is an incredibly difficult thing to predict,

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one of the things we know for certain is the organization that you arrive in

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will help you understand what to do next.

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So if you go to a team or a group or a site or an area and they're doing well,

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we know that if we do nothing, they will, in fact, get better.

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If you go to an organization or a site or an area in your company that's doing

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poorly, you know if you do nothing, they will not get better. They'll get worse.

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And so that's pretty helpful because it sort of helps you understand where to

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put your time, effort, and resources.

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Because when you're jumping in to help an organization improve,

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when you're helping an organization change.

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When you're helping an organization develop a better culture,

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these are all words, when you're helping introduce, for instance,

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psychological safety, or pick any other word you want to put there,

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into an organization, one of the things that's really important is to know where you need to begin.

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And so you have to start not where you want to be.

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You have to start where they are. And sometimes that is really difficult to communicate.

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And I understand. I mean, I completely get the fact that the notion that you

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want to start where you are, that's more interesting and more exciting and you'll

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save a ton of time and you won't have to have the same conversations nine million times.

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And you can just begin and blossom.

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The problem is, is you really have to start where the group is.

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And that's where that idea that good gets better and bad gets worse is a really

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important piece of information.

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Because if the group is on a trajectory for improvement,

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then what you want to do is ensure by sort of understanding conditions necessary

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to increase that improvement, to continue what they're doing, to not intervene,

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to not interrupt, but to actually help facilitate success, that's where you

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manage those conditions.

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But if the group is doing poorly, and poorly is part of what groups become, I mean, pretty normal.

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If the group is in a bad shape.

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Then you have to intervene and you have to actually create a change to break

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that cycle because it's going to go from bad to worse.

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Good gets better, bad gets worse.

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And so that's where the ideas come in of helping a group go to what's often

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called a more restorative approach.

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So one of the things that I think about, because unfortunately,

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I get to talk to groups all the time and work with organizations that have had

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something really bad happen, like a terrible fatality, like a decapitation or something just awful,

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is that that we know if we don't do something differently,

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that group is going to go from this bad place to a worse place.

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And the reason they're going to go to a worse place is because,

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well, a horrible thing has happened.

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And so lots of people are hurt.

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And there's an erosion in confidence. They don't believe they can do high-risk work safely.

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And because there's an erosion in confidence, then there's a dramatic amount

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of other ancillary impacts that are happening to that organization.

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They lose the ability to make decisions or they become incredibly aggressive

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or they direct people with very, very specific,

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non-adaptive, very linear, follow this rule exactly, no variance.

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If you vary it anyway, you're gone. And those kind of things,

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those are significant and those have to be interrupted.

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Because if you go from bad, you get to worse. And I think about this when I

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think about organizations that'll have a bad thing happen, and they'll immediately

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go back to rigid compliance to rules and rigid enforcement of those rules.

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And I understand that the leadership of that team believes they're doing it

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because it's going to make it better. But in fact, it doesn't make it better.

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We know it doesn't make it better. The evidence shows us it doesn't make it better.

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When something bad has happened, it's really important to figure out where people

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are, what they need, and who's going to actually help them have a different

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environment, an environment where they can be more successful at doing high-risk work.

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That's a gigantic shift in thinking. And it comes from this idea that good gets

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better and bad gets worse.

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And the funny thing is, I know that sounds really simple, and it's definitely a platitude.

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It's something you say, and yet it's a platitude that's built around lots and

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lots of years of practical observation.

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I mean, the thing we know about stereotypes is they save a lot of time.

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I'm not sure they're good. Don't get me wrong. But there's some observable things

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that make a huge difference.

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And when you realize that's the case, then that allows you the opportunity to

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go in and what you manage then are the conditions,

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the sort of enabling conditions, the things the group needs environmentally,

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the things the group needs organizationally, the thing the group needs culturally

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to actually get better. And that's what you manage.

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And that's a big part of that discussion.

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Think about that because I think it's definitely worth your time.

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Music.

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So that discussion is just a simple discussion, but it's one that's been on my mind a bunch.

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And it's probably been on my mind just because there's a bunch of stuff that's been going on.

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I mean, not necessarily for me, but a bunch of stuff that's been going on within our world.

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And it makes me think, what do

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I need to be thinking? What do I need to be doing? The world's uncertain.

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People are getting really aggressive and cranky. There's weird questions about

00:18:18.982 --> 00:18:21.642
ownership and pride is hurt.

00:18:22.102 --> 00:18:25.382
There's all sorts of crazy stuff happening out there. You know,

00:18:25.502 --> 00:18:27.742
people hate each other. Cultures hate each other.

00:18:28.862 --> 00:18:32.802
There's just crazy things happening out there. What do we do with it?

00:18:32.902 --> 00:18:34.602
And how does it impact our organization?

00:18:34.822 --> 00:18:37.382
Well, the answer is it does impact our organization.

00:18:37.922 --> 00:18:41.462
This kind of uncertainty is a huge part of what happens. And we know that.

00:18:41.562 --> 00:18:46.202
We've learned that in the last five years for sure. The idea that we can help

00:18:46.202 --> 00:18:53.362
by creating the conditions necessary for our groups to not only succeed but to thrive, to improve,

00:18:53.422 --> 00:18:59.122
is a vital part of how we think about and move forward with these ideas.

00:18:59.342 --> 00:19:01.262
And I think it makes a huge difference.

00:19:01.722 --> 00:19:06.742
It's definitely something to think about, especially on the back of a discussion

00:19:06.742 --> 00:19:11.722
with the administrator of the Occupational Safety Administration for the United States.

00:19:12.462 --> 00:19:16.942
All of these things are super connected. And I think that's a pretty cool thing indeed.

00:19:17.622 --> 00:19:20.942
So that's the pod today. It's short and sweet. I told you I owed you some short

00:19:20.942 --> 00:19:22.582
ones, and this was going to be one of those.

00:19:23.022 --> 00:19:25.802
I want you to learn something new every single day. I hope you did today.

00:19:25.942 --> 00:19:29.602
Have as much fun as you possibly can. Be good to each other. Be kind to each other.

00:19:29.902 --> 00:19:33.322
Check in on one another. And for goodness sakes, you guys, be safe.

00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:45.324
Music.