PAPod 526 - The Power of Conversations in the Workplace

Show Transcript

WEBVTT

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So today, let's have a little chat. Not a big chat. I mean, don't freak out.

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It's not going to be too serious.

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But let's have a little chat about how do we know what we're doing makes a difference.

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Music.

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Hey, everybody, Todd Conklin, Pre-Accident Investigation Podcast. How are you?

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Well it's a great time it's a great

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day to be alive the sun's still shining

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and something else i'm trying to think of the

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rest of the song like it's it's just a good time to be

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here and i'm so pleased to do so so

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i got one of those one of those rings you wear that

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tells you if your heart's beating and

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it's kind of bio feedback it's kind

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of the same feedback that the

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apple watch gives you kind of or android

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watch if you have one of those i'm not being snooty but they make rings that

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do it and they had i'm so cheap they had they had this deal where if you wanted a black one size.

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13, no, a size 14, something like that. Size 13 or 14.

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It was a huge, like half, it was less than half price, brand new.

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I thought I should try this. So I started wearing this ring that tells you if you're happy or not.

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And you know what? I, I learned, I didn't, this is great to know.

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I'm mostly joyous and happy according to my ring. And if the ring says it, it must be true.

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I mean, that's all I can tell you. If the ring says it, it has to be true.

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And so I've been getting this biofeedback. I can tell you, you know,

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how much I breathe and what my resting pulse is and how my sleep quality is.

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It's quite a bit of information.

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It kind of reminds me of working in safety, where you just measure a whole bunch

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of stuff so that if you have a lot of numbers,

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then you must be good because I mean here you

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have it doesn't tell me what to do with

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this data so I don't really know what is good

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and what's bad what's right and wrong but I have lots and lots of information

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and so I'm enjoying the ring we'll see stay with me on this we'll see see how

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long I keep the ring in the rotation so because I don't have a lot of sunk cost

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in it it's not like it cost, you know, $500.

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I mean, it was because I didn't care what color it was.

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And it was the largest one they had. It's kind of like my Christmas Crocs.

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So I got Christmas Crocs because they were on sale. And when you see them,

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they're green, red and white and covered in glitter.

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And they're fur lined with green fuzzy fleece.

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And it's hard to believe that they were on such a good sale because I can't

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believe people didn't just buy a million of them.

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That's kind of where I am on that. But nonetheless, it's another journey into feedback town.

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And that's kind of what this wearable, which I'm pretty hip. Do you hear me being hip?

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That's what the kids call these devices, the wearables and the data it gives you.

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Now, to me, what's so interesting is what will happen with that data?

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Are they collecting it in the grand data scheme for the whole world,

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for everyone who wears one of these rings?

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Or is it just for me? Is it really health data? Is it not health data?

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There is a lot going on here. And that makes it kind of a worthwhile.

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Adventure. At least it's kind of fun. Plus, it's something to do.

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And it's another piece of gear. And who doesn't like, you know,

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having another piece of gear to mess with?

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Other than that, Things are great. I had a wonderful Thanksgiving time in the United States with,

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in fact, it looks like I'm going to have three Thanksgivings,

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which is in essence, or I had three Thanksgivings, which in essence is,

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you know, the perfect way to survive.

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Because I could live forever. I'm not the hugest fan of turkey because I think

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turkey generally is kind of boring.

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It's just a boring, it's boring. And I know I'll offend people.

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The pro-turkey crowd, big turkey is going to hate me.

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But I just find it kind of boring.

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It's not a meat with a lot of personality. Let's just say that.

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Okay, let's get that out there. But all the stuff you have with it,

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the mashed potatoes, the dressing.

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The specialized vegetable dishes, the multitude of pies, that is a pretty good ride.

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And so the fact that I got to go three times makes me three times as happy.

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So my ring should say I'm triple joyful and triple happy. If the data matters

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and it's collected, then that would help me understand where that data is.

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And isn't that what it's all about? Yes, it is. That is what it's all about.

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So that's kind of an update.

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Looking forward, next year is promising to be relatively exciting.

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I'll bring you in on the details on that. Lots of really interesting podcast stuff happening.

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Just because there's a lot of people that want to be on the pod right now.

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And so that's that's been kind of fun and then we've got the secret project going,

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jenny long and i have a secret project and that's

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almost done so in fact that might it that could

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be done by now too because i'm not in charge of it so which is by the way the

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perfect way to be if you can be not in charge of something you should you know

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if you don't have to be the trip leader don't be the trip leader that's what

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i say so all that's good and uh we can move forward And that's exactly what we're going to do.

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So one of the questions I want to ask you, because I think it's a reasonable

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question, and please, whatever you say as an answer is a fine answer.

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Don't think there's a right answer or a wrong answer or feel guilty or joyous.

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It's just a question, and that's all it is. In the best way I can ask this question,

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it's not laden with a bunch of meaning. It's just a question.

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And the question I want to ask you is, how is your work going?

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And I don't mean how do you feel about your work, although that's important

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and I'll talk to you about that anytime.

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But how's the work you're doing in your organization going?

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How's it happening? What do you think is going on?

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And part of what we are challenged by,

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which is kind of why I think I talked about the ring that keeps bio data or

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the watch that keeps bio data or the fact that your phone kind of keeps bio

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data is because collecting data is valuable.

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But it's the interpretation of the data. It's what the data means that is the

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most important part of it.

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And one of the challenges, I really think we have it.

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It's a pretty interesting challenge is that I'll bet you have lots of numeric

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data collected on the status of your organization.

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A pretty good bet that you guys measure a bunch of stuff and you track it and

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you trend it and And you look at it, and that data is there.

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But one of the things that I think is missing, and it's probably because it's

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not terribly empirical, so it's not very scientific.

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And yet, I would suggest it's incredibly important.

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And that is asking people how they feel about your program.

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How they feel about the work you do. How they feel about the organization.

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And not in some survey, because I think people are incredibly over surveyed,

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remarkably over surveyed.

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In fact, I would suggest one of the things that we suffer from is something called survey fatigue.

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We take so many surveys so often for so many reasons that they no longer really

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are terribly meaningful.

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I mean, if you think about it, how many times have you been asked to rate an app? A bunch.

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I mean, that's a survey. That's what that is. It's a Likert scale.

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And it's not very meaningful. And so what we really need to do,

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and most of us, I think, probably are pretty good at this, is to actually go

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out and talk to the people who make up our organization.

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And so the question I want to ask, the one without a lot of agenda to it,

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is when's the last time you went out and asked people how the organization is doing?

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Just an open-ended, big, fat, non-empirical, feeling-based, qualitative data

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question that says, how are we doing?

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Because I want to suggest to you that that question, even though it's hard to

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track, it's hard to trend, it's hard to measure, is incredibly interesting and vitally important.

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Asking that question opens up a conversation. It opens up an opportunity to tell you how.

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Because one of the things you have to bargain for is if you ask people how we're

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doing, then you have to be brave enough to accept the answer they give you.

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And sometimes they're going to tell you we're not doing that good.

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We could be better here. We suck here. This is not effective.

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And because those things are in the conversation, that's a really important

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part of what we want to talk about with the people who make up our organization.

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Because the expertise they bring to the table is quite remarkable.

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It's vital, too. It's important.

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But what it really does is allows this conversation to happen.

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And change, as you know, because we've talked about it a bunch before.

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Change happens organizationally, not on a strategic plan, not in a project plan

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for change management, but it happens one conversation at a time.

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And what takes place when you ask how we're doing is we open up the opportunity

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for conversations to happen that could potentially change everyone,

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not just the workers doing the work, the workers who have the expertise on your

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system's rigidity or flexibility or resilience or your system's brittleness,

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your system's weaknesses.

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Workers understand that really well, but it also changes the conversation that

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leaders have about their organization.

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And they start to talk differently about what's happening in that organization

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and what they're hearing happening in that organization.

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And it makes quite a change.

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So I spent about a week working on a project where we really addressed one kind

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of interesting question.

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And that was the workers who work for us are changing what they need and want.

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Are our organizations reflecting that changing desire and demand from the workforce? That was the question.

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And it was really an interesting question because, man, I learned a ton.

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I learned that organizations that are actually quite successful now in sort

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of contemporary operations build relationships quickly with their workforce.

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That's really important. and they create a sense of connectedness.

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And that relationship building, that quick relationship building is oftentimes

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what would normally be kind of the probationary period is now seen as an opportunity

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to build this very quick relationship,

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full well knowing that the same company that builds really quick relationships

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also has learned how to say very quick goodbyes.

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So they no longer see workers as a long-term part of their strategy,

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as a long-term investment operationally, as somebody that'll come in on day

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one and stay 25 years and leave.

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They've built a system where it's easy to get into the company.

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It's easy to feel welcomed, which dramatically influences performance and sort

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of helps build culture, believe it or not.

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Full well knowing that the relationship will be short term and very functional.

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It'll serve a purpose and it will end quickly.

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Now, I don't know how you feel about that. I'm an old guy with old guy ideas and old guy stuff.

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That just seems complete opposite of what my entire career was spent doing,

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building long-term relationships with development path and an arc and a salary

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management strategy over years to develop workers into the next layer of leadership.

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And what we're learning from our observations, from our conversations with companies,

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is that, in fact, that's not terribly successful.

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In fact, what they told me is that it's kind of disappointing.

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You'll always kind of have your feelings hurt.

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Instead, you want to build connectedness quick. So build friendships quickly,

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build the relationship early, full well knowing that it's impermanent.

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It won't last forever. It can't last forever. And nobody wants it to last forever.

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That's a really interesting challenge. And it sort of builds the case for are

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we out there talking to the people that work with us?

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And the more I thought about this, because, you know, I was in the middle of

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this big discussion and it was freaking me out. I'll just be honest.

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It was quite the dramatic freak out.

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It made me think i don't think at least

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for me personally i'm going into the field

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and having the right conversations i think i go to the field more

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like a anthropologist you know to learn to watch observe learn to really stand

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there and pay attention to what's going on and i think what's missing is the

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opportunity to have that conversation because i wish i had known that this idea

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of building relationships fast,

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creating connectivity quickly, and knowing it's impermanent and will end.

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So building sort of strategies to end the relationship quickly was going on.

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But it is. I mean, that's definitely happening. And companies that are good

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at sort of functioning in this contemporary reality are good at doing those things.

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They do other things as well. I mean, there's way more information. I learned a ton.

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That is dramatic. And I don't want to be caught off guard. Neither do you.

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I mean, the thing that I've always tried to remember is that not knowing does not make you smarter.

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And so if you're caught off, if you're surprised, that means you didn't know.

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And if you didn't know, it means you didn't ask.

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And so I started thinking, well, you know, I think I have to shift from my observer of workers,

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kind of an awe-inspired observer of workers, to really more of a person who's having conversations.

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Who's not just learning, but also building relationships and communicating.

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That was really earth shattering to me. I mean, I would totally be interested

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in what you're thinking.

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Cause it just, I was just like, wow, that happened. That's kind of amazing.

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I mean, that's, that's sort of remarkable to me that that took place.

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And that what I was learning is that ultimately I was going to the right places.

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I don't feel like I was not doing it I was doing what I thought was the right

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thing to do, but I just was not having the right conversations.

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And what's remarkable about not having the right conversations is that you learn

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quickly it's you, not them.

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And that's pretty meaningful. I mean, it's kind of a little bit of slap in the

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facey, a little bit of, hey, your baby's ugly, but also kind of encouraging in that,

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as Charlie McMillan, one of my impressive bosses at Los Alamos said to me,

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sometimes we drift into the wrong question.

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And that's okay, as long as we check it. The power we have to go to the field

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and simply build conversations about how it's going is remarkable. It's not measurable.

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It's probably not trackable and trendable, although AI is allowing us to trend

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conversations in ways I never imagined would be true.

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But it's not traditional data collection, but it probably is important data

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collection. And so those conversations you have going out to the field to ask

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those questions, you've done it forever.

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Those conversations are a really, really important component to creating success,

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not just safety success or reliability success or resilience,

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but also operational success,

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emotional and personal success.

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You're really creating the culture you want to have and

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you're doing it through a series of conversations and the benefit and

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it's a pretty big benefit is that you get to

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learn learning is a powerful tool no question about it and getting the opportunity

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to learn well that's worth its weight in gold so that is a little podcast not

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a big one i told you it's just gonna be a little conversation but i think it's

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an important conversation it's the one we should be having.

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Music.

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So where does this all take us? Well, there's a good little epilogue to everything we've talked about.

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And that is that I'm going to encourage you this next year as part of your resolution

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to actually build more time to have conversations with groups of workers asking

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pretty direct questions about how we're doing. How's it going?

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How's work control, work management working? Where are the pain points?

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Where are we safe? Where are we not safe? Where are we fragile and brittle?

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Where are we robust and resilient?

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And having those conversations with pretty great regularity not only gives you

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information, which means you're going to have to do work. I mean,

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there's no question about that.

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But it also gives you the opportunity to really craft the environment you hope you have.

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Build that notion that it's okay to tell you the truth.

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And that even more importantly, it's okay to push the boundaries of that.

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Let me tell you where we have to break the rule in order to get the work done.

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Because knowing that before something bad happens, well, that's the very best

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time to know that. You know that as well as I do. And it also makes it kind of groovy and cool.

00:19:51.763 --> 00:19:56.743
And I think you'll find it to be a really important tool. If you're not using

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it already, and probably all of us are, but I wonder if we've decided and learned

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how to leverage it to really make a difference.

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That, I think, is a cool thing to talk about.

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Have fun. I mean, I'm wishing you the best. It's going to be a grand,

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grand time. We're right in the middle of, you know, all the stuff happening, so that's cool.

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Learn something new every single day. Have as much fun as you possibly can.

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Be good to each other. Be kind to each other. And for goodness sakes, you guys, be safe.

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Music.