PAPod 528 - Embracing Uncertainty: Navigating Change in Today's World

WEBVTT 00:00:00.017 --> 00:00:05.017 So let's have a conversation about a project I just did that you might find interesting. 00:00:05.557 --> 00:00:07.757 And some of you have already found 00:00:07.757 --> 00:00:13.397 it interesting because I've seen some feedback on the interest level. 00:00:13.537 --> 00:00:18.117 And I'm always surprised by what works and what doesn't work, 00:00:18.117 --> 00:00:21.037 what people think is interesting, what people don't think. 00:00:21.157 --> 00:00:24.857 Like in the podcast, episodes that I'm super excited about, I mean, 00:00:24.977 --> 00:00:29.077 like, this one's going to be great, don't get the same feedback.

00:00:30.017 --> 00:00:33.597 And episodes where I'm like, that one could have been so much better. 00:00:34.017 --> 00:00:35.557 Huge number of downloads. 00:00:35.997 --> 00:00:40.757 So I'm convinced I don't know what people want or like. 00:00:40.977 --> 00:00:44.637 But I'm all right with that because it keeps me trying.

00:00:45.117 --> 00:00:50.137 The enemy of learning is knowing. 00:00:50.577 --> 00:00:54.657 And the minute I know something, then I'll stop learning something. 00:00:54.657 --> 00:01:01.897 So I think it's actually good for me that I don't know what people want from me. We'll be right back.

00:01:03.440 --> 00:01:13.520 Music. 00:01:13.357 --> 00:01:17.057 Hey, everybody. Todd Conklin, Pre-Accident Investigation Podcast. How are you?

00:01:17.357 --> 00:01:20.577 I hope you're doing great. I mean, that's my wish for everybody. 00:01:20.737 --> 00:01:24.857 I hope everybody's doing great. it is an interesting time to be alive.

00:01:25.177 --> 00:01:28.537 Without question, it's an interesting time to be alive. 00:01:28.657 --> 00:01:33.757 Now, to be fair, I would guess throughout history, people have always said that. 00:01:34.117 --> 00:01:38.377 And that's the interesting thing about progress. And it's the really interesting 00:01:38.377 --> 00:01:46.497 part of uncertainty is that it's probably always, it's always interesting to see society develop.

00:01:47.317 --> 00:01:52.297 And there's always a question about what's going to happen next. 00:01:52.597 --> 00:01:56.377 And because, generally speaking, human beings, for many reasons, 00:01:56.517 --> 00:02:00.597 we could talk about all of them, or not inclusively, but tons of them, 00:02:00.737 --> 00:02:04.857 but for many reasons, human beings aren't very good at predicting the future. 00:02:05.537 --> 00:02:08.937 We know that we don't know what will happen next. 00:02:09.277 --> 00:02:14.857 And to me, what's been so interesting is that right now, uncertainty levels 00:02:14.857 --> 00:02:19.977 are high.

Risk is continuously high and in motion. 00:02:20.816 --> 00:02:27.656 And we're expected to function, to produce, to work in the midst of high risk and high uncertainty. 00:02:28.276 --> 00:02:33.176 Well, that's an interesting time to be alive. And that's kind of right where 00:02:33.176 --> 00:02:36.516 we find all of us.

We find ourselves right in that position. 00:02:36.676 --> 00:02:42.556 And what's amazing is that we're really learning and growing and improving. 00:02:43.216 --> 00:02:47.436 But improvement happens kind of incrementally. And I've said it before.

00:02:47.816 --> 00:02:49.136 I mean, I'm sure I'll say it again. 00:02:50.036 --> 00:02:54.276 Improvement's relatively hard to measure using classic metrics, 00:02:54.276 --> 00:03:00.296 because classic metrics can tell us how we've done, but they're not very good 00:03:00.296 --> 00:03:04.696 at telling us how we're doing or where we're moving. 00:03:04.696 --> 00:03:10.016 And so if you kind of shift from the idea that we can measure things in order 00:03:10.016 --> 00:03:14.216 to manage things, which is really kind of a left-handed way to say we measure 00:03:14.216 --> 00:03:15.796 things in order to control things, 00:03:16.116 --> 00:03:22.696 to more of a notion that we monitor and we can sense improvement by not measuring, 00:03:22.696 --> 00:03:28.056 but by monitoring, by thinking of it kind of like a gas gauge, right? 00:03:28.056 --> 00:03:32.296 I mean, it's not a metric per se, or even a compass might work, right?

00:03:32.476 --> 00:03:36.476 You can sort of see to what degree you're making a difference, 00:03:36.476 --> 00:03:38.836 to what degree things are happening. 00:03:39.316 --> 00:03:43.656 And that's kind of part of what we want to talk about today. 00:03:44.176 --> 00:03:48.536 Because I've told you before, and I'm sure we'll have this conversation again, 00:03:48.796 --> 00:03:53.496 so don't worry if you miss it, That what we really do in our jobs, 00:03:53.756 --> 00:03:56.936 helping organizations improve their stability, 00:03:57.416 --> 00:04:00.956 their resilience, their reliability, their safety. 00:04:01.496 --> 00:04:04.176 Those kind of things we do, right?

00:04:04.376 --> 00:04:11.096 What we're really doing is helping an organization learn and change, learn and improve. 00:04:11.096 --> 00:04:18.716 And so I became really fixated on the fact that this idea that we want to create 00:04:18.716 --> 00:04:25.356 change in an uncertain environment and that that's not easy to do because change is hard. 00:04:25.616 --> 00:04:27.896 Change even for the good is hard. 00:04:28.156 --> 00:04:30.016 I mean, it's just difficult.

00:04:30.276 --> 00:04:36.696 And change that sort of falls on top of us where we don't have a lot of control 00:04:36.696 --> 00:04:41.216 or say-so or engagement, that changes even harder. 00:04:41.856 --> 00:04:44.896 And so I started thinking about that and I thought, well, I wonder what this 00:04:44.896 --> 00:04:49.456 all means and how can we take this and learn from it? 00:04:49.556 --> 00:04:52.576 How can we take this and really think about it? 00:04:52.836 --> 00:04:58.416 And what happened is I started to keep a little list.

And that's what I want 00:04:58.416 --> 00:05:04.676 to talk about today is this little list that I started keeping and what happened with it. 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:12.400 Music. 00:05:12.669 --> 00:05:19.229 So I just published a book pretty recently, and you may be listening to it right now. 00:05:19.529 --> 00:05:24.729 I mean, that's how recent it is.

And the book is entitled New Ideas for Old 00:05:24.729 --> 00:05:29.689 Problems, A Human Performance Approach to Sustainable Change. 00:05:30.069 --> 00:05:37.429 And it's not really per se a cookbook on how to change safety or the 10 steps 00:05:37.429 --> 00:05:41.529 to make a better safety culture or the five principles to human performance. 00:05:41.529 --> 00:05:45.729 Or name any safety book, and there's a million of them out there. 00:05:46.349 --> 00:05:55.849 This book really is kind of a collection of thoughts and ideas that were rattling 00:05:55.849 --> 00:05:59.529 around in my head that I didn't really know what to do with, 00:05:59.589 --> 00:06:00.849 but I knew were pretty important.

00:06:01.669 --> 00:06:05.969 And when I started looking at this list, ICAP, and you probably do the same thing. 00:06:06.089 --> 00:06:09.409 You hear an interesting thing, or you have an interesting idea, 00:06:09.609 --> 00:06:13.669 or there's an interesting question to ask, I kind of jot it down because I think, 00:06:13.769 --> 00:06:17.469 well, maybe I'll come back to this or maybe I'll need some time to think on it. 00:06:17.709 --> 00:06:22.389 And this will force me to actually think about what I was thinking about. 00:06:22.849 --> 00:06:26.509 And so I started keeping this list and I guess I've been doing this a while.

00:06:26.809 --> 00:06:29.789 And if we've talked before, and we probably have, 00:06:30.469 --> 00:06:34.549 you know that one of the best places, at least for me to think, 00:06:34.789 --> 00:06:41.809 is when I go out and ride my bike around because I don't really have an agenda for my bike ride. 00:06:42.209 --> 00:06:47.489 I'm just riding around. I'm just, I'm getting out. I'm enjoying the great outside.

00:06:48.049 --> 00:06:53.169 I'm traveling around. It's really fun. I get to see and say hello to people 00:06:53.169 --> 00:06:56.369 because I really practice preventative politeness. 00:06:56.769 --> 00:07:01.889 So if I'm nice to you before you're mean to me, then you won't yell at me for 00:07:01.889 --> 00:07:03.549 riding my bicycle on the sidewalk.

00:07:03.789 --> 00:07:09.189 You'll have to say hello. And so one of the things that happened is in these 00:07:09.189 --> 00:07:11.429 bike rides, I think about stuff. 00:07:12.156 --> 00:07:15.356 And one of the challenges that I've been thinking about a lot lately, 00:07:15.516 --> 00:07:19.156 and it probably makes sense if you think about it in the timing of everything 00:07:19.156 --> 00:07:24.796 that's happening, is how we can actually help organizations change. 00:07:25.476 --> 00:07:30.236 Because talking about these new ideas for safety, right, they're exciting.

00:07:30.236 --> 00:07:34.556 And you can really whip people into kind of a frenzy for a little bit. 00:07:35.076 --> 00:07:40.576 But then the problem is, is what do they do with it? How do they apply these ideas to real life? 00:07:40.576 --> 00:07:47.076 And maybe even more richly, how do they apply these rather new ideas to a mature 00:07:47.076 --> 00:07:50.336 system that generally is functioning pretty well?

00:07:50.476 --> 00:07:53.176 Our old safety system isn't bad. 00:07:53.716 --> 00:07:55.636 It's just not good. 00:07:56.556 --> 00:08:02.556 Do we want to throw the old system away to actually use this new system? 00:08:02.876 --> 00:08:10.056 And what do we do differently to ensure that, A, we're actually changing our 00:08:10.056 --> 00:08:13.136 approach, our philosophy of safety.

00:08:13.236 --> 00:08:15.696 We're changing the definition of safety. 00:08:16.056 --> 00:08:18.556 And once we get that shift in 00:08:18.556 --> 00:08:22.636 the conversation, how do we get it to sink in? How do we get it to stick? 00:08:23.016 --> 00:08:27.856 How do we get it to be sustainable in the smallest sustainable, 00:08:28.096 --> 00:08:33.536 not in the largest sustainable use of the word?

How do we get organizations to take that on? 00:08:33.956 --> 00:08:37.296 And this all started to be really honest with you, because why not? 00:08:37.556 --> 00:08:41.036 Might as well be honest at this point. Kind of no benefit in not being honest.

00:08:41.616 --> 00:08:44.436 Is I thought a lot about the new definition. 00:08:45.156 --> 00:08:50.616 So one of the things we've done, you and I together, and it's been kind of an important thing. 00:08:50.856 --> 00:08:55.296 I don't know if it feels important because we're doing it and we do it all the 00:08:55.296 --> 00:08:57.716 time. And so it feels a little bit old hat.

00:08:58.316 --> 00:09:02.096 Like these are ideas we've had. We've had these for years. Don't bother me with 00:09:02.096 --> 00:09:03.016 these. I already know that.

00:09:03.476 --> 00:09:07.796 And yet every time we say this new definition to a group of people, 00:09:07.996 --> 00:09:11.836 it may be their first time to actually think about the problem that way. 00:09:11.956 --> 00:09:13.296 And the definition is really easy. 00:09:13.916 --> 00:09:17.456 Traditionally, we've defined safety as the absence of injuries. 00:09:17.716 --> 00:09:21.076 In fact, we've measured safety as the absence of injuries.

00:09:21.176 --> 00:09:26.296 And we've done it for years. In fact, I think it's fair to say we have kind 00:09:26.296 --> 00:09:30.836 of a lot of maturity around that definition of safety, and that maturity has 00:09:30.836 --> 00:09:34.976 ended up coding itself into our systems and processes, 00:09:35.376 --> 00:09:41.536 especially things like regulatory compliance and contract language. 00:09:41.536 --> 00:09:47.496 So people will look at your reportability numbers and determine whether you 00:09:47.496 --> 00:09:51.996 are a good company or a bad company, whether you're in compliance or out of 00:09:51.996 --> 00:09:55.416 compliance, whether you're contractable or not contractable. 00:09:55.936 --> 00:10:00.876 So that's a pretty deep ingrained notion that.

00:10:01.273 --> 00:10:05.253 For a rather old and tired definition of safety. 00:10:05.933 --> 00:10:09.973 Because one of the things probably most of us will agree, I'm guessing, 00:10:10.333 --> 00:10:13.793 although if you don't agree, you're still welcome, I'm glad you're here, 00:10:14.073 --> 00:10:18.093 is that safety is not the absence of accidents. 00:10:18.633 --> 00:10:25.013 Safety is the presence of capacity. It's the presence of barriers and controls 00:10:25.013 --> 00:10:30.493 and leadership and training and direction and culture and all the things we talk about.

00:10:31.073 --> 00:10:35.793 Safety's job isn't to take bad things out of the workplace, because we're never 00:10:35.793 --> 00:10:39.013 going to do that, because there's always bad things in the workplace. 00:10:39.193 --> 00:10:42.113 And every time we remove one bad thing, two new ones come in. 00:10:43.033 --> 00:10:46.513 Safety's job is to put good things into the workplace. 00:10:46.933 --> 00:10:50.473 And that's always true.

You don't make a system better by removing the failure. 00:10:50.653 --> 00:10:53.813 You make a system better by adding in the capacity. 00:10:54.353 --> 00:11:00.473 And so we build this case that says organizations that are actually safe or 00:11:00.473 --> 00:11:06.233 safer or responding safely, I even think that's a better use. 00:11:06.513 --> 00:11:12.593 The reason they're so safe is not because they don't fail, not because they 00:11:12.593 --> 00:11:16.653 don't have events, not because bad things don't happen.

00:11:16.893 --> 00:11:22.433 The reason they're so safe is because they have capacity that when something happens, 00:11:22.733 --> 00:11:31.373 they have the ability to absorb or to recover or to respond, or as David Wood says, 00:11:31.593 --> 00:11:37.453 to gracefully extend their processes so that they can encapsulate the event 00:11:37.453 --> 00:11:40.133 without having the horrific consequence. 00:11:40.533 --> 00:11:44.153 So we know that. That definition is a big part of it. 00:11:44.253 --> 00:11:48.393 And when we share it, that probably is earth-shattering to some people.

00:11:48.473 --> 00:11:52.153 I know it is. I mean, even today, it's earth-shadowing to people. 00:11:52.373 --> 00:11:56.113 The crazy thing is that idea is a pretty easy thing to introduce, 00:11:56.113 --> 00:11:58.533 but how do we get it to stick? 00:11:59.554 --> 00:12:04.774 How do we get it so that that idea slowly becomes the dominant thought?

00:12:04.994 --> 00:12:11.494 And soon, contract language and governance language stops looking at the presence 00:12:11.494 --> 00:12:16.214 of injuries and starts looking at the presence of capacity. How are we going to get there? 00:12:16.594 --> 00:12:20.234 Well, that's kind of what the lists started to do, 00:12:20.494 --> 00:12:27.934 is they started to really approach this idea, that how can we create the conversation 00:12:27.934 --> 00:12:32.154 that helps this change stick around a while. 00:12:32.314 --> 00:12:34.934 It may not be permanent because kind of nothing is.

00:12:35.174 --> 00:12:38.394 Organizations are constantly ebbing and flowing. That's what they do. 00:12:38.814 --> 00:12:46.754 But in fact, it's a worthwhile way to start hardwiring into our processes, 00:12:47.174 --> 00:12:51.934 practices, systems, and eventually our organizations, these new ideas. 00:12:51.934 --> 00:12:55.374 And so these lists started to appear.

00:12:55.774 --> 00:13:01.574 And the funny thing about these lists is that they really were just ideas. 00:13:01.934 --> 00:13:08.814 And they weren't really created to, you know, go together. 00:13:09.114 --> 00:13:14.914 I mean, I didn't make a list of a special category, all these things go into 00:13:14.914 --> 00:13:17.814 page one. No, it wasn't like that at all.

00:13:18.094 --> 00:13:26.154 These were individual ideas that I was thinking about, and yet they started to come together. 00:13:26.774 --> 00:13:31.074 And that's what led to this little book. 00:13:31.194 --> 00:13:35.034 It's not a big book at all. In fact, it's probably less than an hour's read.

00:13:35.434 --> 00:13:39.754 And I made a mistake with the publisher, and the typeface is really large. 00:13:40.114 --> 00:13:43.634 I didn't mean for the typeface to be large, but I must tell you, 00:13:43.634 --> 00:13:47.594 friends, that there's something comfortable about large typefaces. 00:13:47.974 --> 00:13:51.494 It's pretty easy to read. I'll just say that.

I mean, I don't know if you've 00:13:51.494 --> 00:13:54.954 noticed as you get older, your eyes don't change. 00:13:55.074 --> 00:14:01.814 You're super young and agile and amazing, but the typefaces get fuzzier. 00:14:02.134 --> 00:14:05.614 Well, this kind of corrects for that with this large fit. And what this book 00:14:05.614 --> 00:14:11.774 does is it really talks kind of about five categories.

00:14:12.094 --> 00:14:19.254 One is that this new safety idea is really some new ideas, new philosophies, 00:14:19.354 --> 00:14:22.234 new approaches for really an old set of problems. 00:14:22.434 --> 00:14:28.334 So that's helpful because that allows us the ability to kind of bridge these 00:14:28.334 --> 00:14:32.694 new things in a new way. And that's pretty cool. 00:14:33.074 --> 00:14:42.174 Then it talks about the rate of which change happens and the rate of which change takes hold.

00:14:43.026 --> 00:14:48.486 And that one of the things that the list kept showing up is that change doesn't 00:14:48.486 --> 00:14:54.326 happen when you want it to, change happens when the people want it to happen. 00:14:54.506 --> 00:14:57.986 And so you can have the best plan in the world, in the whole world, 00:14:58.186 --> 00:15:04.546 and yet not really manage the moment the new idea diffuses into the world. 00:15:04.546 --> 00:15:14.066 The third category is that leadership being successful in managing this new 00:15:14.066 --> 00:15:18.986 change means that the organization will have to change as well. 00:15:19.386 --> 00:15:25.666 That leadership and the organization are so intertwined, so interlaced, 00:15:25.906 --> 00:15:30.366 that one really can't move well without the other.

00:15:30.366 --> 00:15:34.586 And that if we want leadership to succeed, we have to create organizational 00:15:34.586 --> 00:15:39.206 systems and process an opportunity for leaders to, in fact, succeed. 00:15:39.546 --> 00:15:46.006 And that's really important. And then the fourth one is the idea that this is 00:15:46.006 --> 00:15:52.026 really a journey of continuous improvement that happens in degrees of change 00:15:52.026 --> 00:15:53.846 and increments of change. 00:15:53.846 --> 00:15:58.066 And because it's incremental, because that's how change happens, 00:15:58.066 --> 00:16:01.606 it's not going to be a big bang rollout.

Boom. 00:16:01.906 --> 00:16:05.406 On Tuesday, we're going to have a brand new system and everything will be different. 00:16:06.146 --> 00:16:12.806 That's not very successful. But slow incremental change and change that's attached 00:16:12.806 --> 00:16:17.566 from old ideas to new ideas, change is kind of like a bridge.

00:16:18.826 --> 00:16:21.906 Those ideas are in fact the ideas 00:16:21.906 --> 00:16:25.386 that are most successful and what's 00:16:25.386 --> 00:16:29.146 remarkable about this little book and i'm not saying the book itself is remarkable 00:16:29.146 --> 00:16:35.286 it really is sort of a collection of lists it's not it's not like other books 00:16:35.286 --> 00:16:39.446 it doesn't have a lot of case studies and it doesn't have a thread that runs 00:16:39.446 --> 00:16:43.526 through it i mean i guess there is a thread that runs through it And that threat is change. 00:16:43.906 --> 00:16:51.686 What it does do, however, is just introduce a lot of ideas that may, in fact, 00:16:51.926 --> 00:16:59.586 influence the discussions and the approaches that you take for really any kind of change. 00:16:59.586 --> 00:17:03.886 This is specifically written around the idea of doing safety in a new way. 00:17:04.641 --> 00:17:11.261 But it's totally effective for a big bang rollout of a new software system or 00:17:11.261 --> 00:17:17.701 a new HR process or a new ops system or a new procedural tracking and management, 00:17:17.941 --> 00:17:18.921 a corrective action program.

00:17:19.101 --> 00:17:24.101 It's any kind of program where you're going from an old idea to a new idea. 00:17:24.101 --> 00:17:26.621 And there's a compelling reason why that happens. 00:17:27.241 --> 00:17:32.421 And one of the things that I think this book did for me, I'm curious to see 00:17:32.421 --> 00:17:34.301 what you think when you pick it up. 00:17:34.641 --> 00:17:40.121 But one of the things it did for me was it just helped me understand the incremental 00:17:40.121 --> 00:17:49.021 nature, the degree of which change happens, and how the battle we're fighting is not this giant.

00:17:49.901 --> 00:17:56.061 Philosophical shift, but in fact, it's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of 00:17:56.061 --> 00:18:01.261 little tiny philosophical shifts, which helps me think, wow, 00:18:01.601 --> 00:18:07.841 this redefinition of safety is probably pretty important because what the redefinition 00:18:07.841 --> 00:18:14.321 of safety does is it kind of starts in a small way, a new conversation. 00:18:14.941 --> 00:18:21.121 And that is pretty interesting. Now, the book itself was kind of fun to put together. 00:18:21.381 --> 00:18:25.981 I mean, I had a great time doing it.

And as you know, because I've probably 00:18:25.981 --> 00:18:31.601 told you before, when I do a project like this, I usually try to find a place 00:18:31.601 --> 00:18:35.861 where I'm sort of out of the flow. 00:18:36.761 --> 00:18:40.421 So I'm far enough away that people can't call me. 00:18:40.761 --> 00:18:46.041 And I usually try to go to someplace where there's not a tremendous amount of distractions. 00:18:46.661 --> 00:18:52.981 And I'll just kind of sit down somewhere comfortable and start to write some of these ideas down.

00:18:53.061 --> 00:18:56.941 But this one was easy because a lot of the ideas I'd already written down. 00:18:56.941 --> 00:19:03.761 And so I would take these lists and kind of expand on those ideas within each 00:19:03.761 --> 00:19:05.301 one of the sections of the book. 00:19:05.661 --> 00:19:09.401 And so it's going to look like that. 00:19:09.701 --> 00:19:13.921 It's not going to be this smooth flowing river of information, 00:19:13.921 --> 00:19:18.161 but I'm not sure that's what you need when you talk about sustaining change, 00:19:18.441 --> 00:19:20.141 big philosophical shifts.

00:19:20.321 --> 00:19:24.741 When you're talking about doing safety in a new way, you don't probably need 00:19:24.741 --> 00:19:31.501 a complete roadmap because everybody's journey is completely and totally different. 00:19:32.539 --> 00:19:37.179 Our journey is not like your journey and other companies journeys won't be like 00:19:37.179 --> 00:19:38.039 other companies journeys. 00:19:38.539 --> 00:19:43.459 What you need are some ideas and maybe some discussion around the timing, 00:19:43.719 --> 00:19:46.219 the speed of which change happens. 00:19:46.599 --> 00:19:49.499 And that'll help you sort of judge where you are.

00:19:49.879 --> 00:19:54.519 And then I tried really hard to give you things to monitor, not to measure, 00:19:54.699 --> 00:19:57.919 but to monitor. Are we hearing different conversations? 00:19:58.179 --> 00:20:00.599 Are we seeing different outcomes? 00:20:00.879 --> 00:20:03.499 Do we have more effective corrective actions?

00:20:03.819 --> 00:20:07.359 Are we closing corrective? Do we have fewer maintenance reworks? 00:20:07.679 --> 00:20:12.619 Are we getting more and richer near misses? 00:20:13.139 --> 00:20:17.239 Those are all things you can kind of monitor.

You don't necessarily need to 00:20:17.239 --> 00:20:21.679 measure them, but you can say, you know, our number of near misses is up. 00:20:22.419 --> 00:20:27.199 Even if it's up by one, it's up. And let's see if it continues to be up. 00:20:27.239 --> 00:20:31.099 And if it stops being up and starts either leveling out or going down, 00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:34.639 then that helps us understand.

And that's what this book talks about. 00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:40.259 That helps us understand that we've probably got to look for other ways to understand 00:20:40.259 --> 00:20:42.279 how the change is diffusing. 00:20:42.819 --> 00:20:48.719 And one of the very lucky things that I got to do is to actually talk in detail 00:20:48.719 --> 00:20:51.419 about how ideas diffuse. 00:20:52.259 --> 00:20:57.639 So I studied for my doctorate with a gentleman named Everett Rogers, 00:20:57.639 --> 00:21:04.079 who wrote a really, really famous scholarly book called The Diffusion of Innovation.

00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:06.039 I've talked about it before on the podcast. 00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:11.479 And it's a really famous, it's a really important book, because he was really 00:21:11.479 --> 00:21:15.959 the first person to look at how new ideas moved through organizations, 00:21:15.959 --> 00:21:21.019 or new ideas move through governments or new ideas move through society. 00:21:21.659 --> 00:21:26.319 And what he studied, because he grew up in Iowa, I mean, just a country boy, 00:21:26.439 --> 00:21:32.299 just a farm boy, is he studied the diffusion of hybrid seed corn. 00:21:33.205 --> 00:21:40.445 And how farmers started using this new hybrid seed corn to grow corn that had a much higher yield.

00:21:40.625 --> 00:21:42.465 It would create more corn. 00:21:42.745 --> 00:21:46.685 And he studied that really carefully very early in his career. 00:21:47.025 --> 00:21:50.325 And he came up with this curve. You've seen it before, this S-curve.

00:21:50.425 --> 00:21:55.825 And it starts with this idea of leading adopters and then early adopters. 00:21:55.925 --> 00:22:01.285 And then you have sort of the leading majority, the lagging majority. 00:22:01.285 --> 00:22:06.065 And then he ends with the last people to change in the organization. 00:22:06.065 --> 00:22:07.545 He calls them the laggards.

00:22:08.045 --> 00:22:14.845 And what's amazing is that idea translates beautifully to your organization as well. 00:22:14.965 --> 00:22:17.245 You have early adopters in your organization. 00:22:17.485 --> 00:22:21.305 You have people, when you introduce new ideas, they're off to the races. 00:22:21.525 --> 00:22:23.565 They're running with it because things are happening.

00:22:23.945 --> 00:22:27.525 You also have people who are the last people to change. 00:22:28.265 --> 00:22:33.885 And in fact, when they do change, they change kicking and screaming the entire way. 00:22:34.345 --> 00:22:38.145 And one of the things that Roger says, and I think this is so beautiful, 00:22:38.465 --> 00:22:43.105 is that those different people need different things. 00:22:44.045 --> 00:22:47.205 And so change is not one size fits all.

We've known that. I mean, 00:22:47.285 --> 00:22:49.085 that's not earth shattering. 00:22:49.345 --> 00:22:54.665 But I think we forget it, that some groups need less attention. 00:22:54.665 --> 00:23:00.925 In fact, some groups really desire and succeed with less attention, 00:23:00.925 --> 00:23:04.225 and some groups need more attention.

00:23:04.745 --> 00:23:10.685 And there's kind of a gradient in between those less attention groups and those more attention groups. 00:23:10.945 --> 00:23:18.385 And some approaches and ideas. That's all it is, lists of ideas that make change 00:23:18.385 --> 00:23:22.225 at least a little bit more potentially successful. 00:23:22.225 --> 00:23:29.965 Not by managing the change, but by creating conditions around which the organization can change.

00:23:30.793 --> 00:23:36.253 That's key. And that's what this book does. And that's what I hope it's done for you. 00:23:36.693 --> 00:23:43.733 New Ideas for Old Problems, A Human Performance Approach to Sustainable Change.

00:23:44.273 --> 00:23:47.253 It's an interesting discussion. 00:23:47.853 --> 00:23:52.813 It's kind of a book that gives us reason to further research these ideas. 00:23:53.093 --> 00:23:58.353 It points you towards other work because there are people who've done much deeper 00:23:58.353 --> 00:24:01.933 and richer studies and discussions on the idea of change. 00:24:02.333 --> 00:24:06.093 But it also is written to help you realize that we're all in this together.

00:24:06.453 --> 00:24:08.713 And that together is pretty important. 00:24:13.613 --> 00:24:18.833 So that's today's discussion about new ideas for old problems. 00:24:19.773 --> 00:24:25.553 It's an interesting way to kind of look into the way people are thinking. 00:24:25.713 --> 00:24:28.213 In this case, sort of what my 00:24:28.213 --> 00:24:32.713 lists look like, what the ideas that I'm contemplating kind of look like.

00:24:32.893 --> 00:24:38.073 But what I hope it does for you is creates an opportunity for you to make your 00:24:38.073 --> 00:24:42.073 own list, maybe on the margins of this book, just write stuff in. 00:24:42.293 --> 00:24:44.593 There's plenty of room because it's big print. 00:24:45.113 --> 00:24:52.193 But it helps to kind of share the knowledge that we've all learned from changes 00:24:52.193 --> 00:24:57.093 we've done before that have either been successful or maybe not as successful. 00:24:57.633 --> 00:25:00.813 And that's an important characteristic of change as well.

00:25:01.393 --> 00:25:07.893 New ideas for old problems. A human performance approach to sustainable change. 00:25:08.613 --> 00:25:11.613 Thanks for listening. Learn something new every single day.

Have as much fun 00:25:11.613 --> 00:25:13.253 as you possibly can. Be good to each other. 00:25:13.473 --> 00:25:17.633 Be kind to each other. Check in on each other.

And for goodness sakes, be safe. 00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:29.177 Music.