PAPod 533 - Exploring the Future with Doug Parker and Jim Frederick

Show Transcript

WEBVTT

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Okay, everybody, this is part two of our conversation with Doug Parker and Jim Frederick.

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If you've not listened to part one, I'm not saying it's mandatory.

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I mean, because I don't want to boss you around, but it seems like it's something

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you'd want to do just to kind of catch up with where we're going to start,

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because we're going to start running.

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So here we go with part two. Get ready. We'll be right back.

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Music.

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Hey everybody, Pre-Accident Podcast. It's Todd Conklin and we're here.

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We're back to finish that conversation we had with Doug Parker and Jim Frederick.

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And I got so much positive, interesting feedback from you guys.

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I mean, it's kind of remarkable.

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I told you, I mean, I was really, I get kind of excited about these dumb podcasts anyway.

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And you shouldn't ask me why, because I don't know if I could tell you why.

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Except they're fun to do, and we've been doing them a long time.

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I mean, once you kind of break the 10-year mark, I don't know,

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it's just a different deal.

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I mean, it becomes more of a habit than a problem.

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And I've given myself a little vacation, because I don't know if you've noticed,

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but I've kind of softened back on the safety moment section because it was a

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lot of work for not very much payoff.

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I'll still do them. Don't get me wrong. They're coming, but you know,

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I'm, I'm giving myself a break.

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That's why that's the good thing about getting older.

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If you haven't sort of figured this out, the great thing about getting older

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is you kind of stop doing stuff that you don't want to do anymore.

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That's something to look forward. There's a lot of downside to it.

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Like you have to urinate all the time. I mean, we can talk about the downside

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a bunch, but the good side is you do kind of become a little more selective

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in how you spend your time.

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And one of the things that I value highly is the time I spend with you on this podcast.

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And I really value the opportunity to talk to people who move what we do forward.

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And that's really what I tried to capture in this conversation.

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And you've heard the first part.

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And again, the feedback I got is crazy.

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I mean, it was a very fun conversation. And I kind of cut the fun parts out

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because we did spend a lot of time talking about the streets being blocked and how cold it was.

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And I mean, you know, shitty chat because you kind of got to warm into the conversation.

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That's not as vital, but it's a big part of what we talk about.

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But this next section, I really like because it's going to help illustrate kind of the next steps,

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the future, what we can do to continue moving forward.

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And that part, I think, is – that was a harder part of the conversation.

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Not for me. It's pretty easy for me.

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But I think it was a difficult part of the conversation and part that I really

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embraced. And what I found so interesting is so did Doug and Jim.

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They really embraced the opportunity. And this was a good use of time.

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And I think you probably, well, the feedback I got from you guys is people absolutely agreed.

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But I think you're going to agree, especially as we close this out.

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So without much further ado, this is the part two section. If you've not heard

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part one, you might want to sort of do that. That might be helpful.

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Although I don't know if it's necessary. It's up to you.

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But this is the part two where we kind of talk about the look ahead.

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I don't know what else to call it other than the look ahead.

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And I think you'll find it to be interesting and charming and kind of fun.

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Thanks for listening. Tell your friends anything I can do to help you.

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Give me a call. I'm here to do it.

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You know, whatever. You need to take my, you don't even have to call me.

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Just take the stuff and use it. That's what I'd say.

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That's easier because then you're not bugging me and I'm not bugging you.

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So it works perfectly. Until then, listen carefully to part two.

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Honorable Douglas Pucker and the amazing Jim Frederick on governance and what

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the future is going to look like, maybe.

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What'd you guys get right? What are you most proud of?

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I think that I will add another factor

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to what I think has impacted that

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shift from compliance to best practices

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and that's our emphasis on heat when i

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go to and i and i and

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i don't mean to be taking all the credit for that as osha

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because i think it's been a collective effort but but our our work has been

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a major catalyst for it when i go you know when i go to shows when i go to conventions

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when when walking around the vendor booths and you see the interest in heat,

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the technology on heat, the way that that's driving innovation,

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the way that that's driving quest for solutions.

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When I talk to employers and I hear about support for the rule,

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when I hear them talking about all the things that they're already doing,

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and people excited to tell me about their solutions around heat,

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it's incredibly encouraging.

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And it's a really strong reflection of that proactive approach,

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that problem-solving approach, that model that you described.

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And I think that we will...

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We will in the long run get credit for that contribution, and it'll be more

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significant than even our rule proposal or our national emphasis program on heat.

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So that's one thing that I'm particularly proud of.

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I'm proud of the work that we've done internally to promote leadership and innovation

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within the organization because just like our external stakeholders are focused on compliance,

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we are very much focused on compliance for very understandable reasons.

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And we're not going to, you know, OSHA shouldn't shift away from a focus on compliance.

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But we've also really been encouraging our team and our staff to think innovatively and to.

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You know, in an ideal world, you'd be wearing both the inspector hat and the

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safety professional hat as you enter into a workplace so that you're, you know,

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you're providing solutions and you're engaged with that employer,

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you know, not just to issue citations,

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but to really leave that workplace safer than you found it rather than just

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focusing on issuing citations.

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And that's certainly still a work in progress, but I think that we've planted seeds for that.

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I think that's a super important point you bring up is that the kind of impression

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that we have in the outside world as stakeholders is you're starting to see

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a real relationship between enforcement and assurance.

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And that it's not just about enforcement.

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It's about actually making the workplace safer and better and assuring that

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those safer and better ideas are in place. And that line between enforcement

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and assurance is kind of a difficult, it's a fuzzy line, but it's a really important line.

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And let me just say it quickly before I think Jim has something to say,

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but, you know, it's not like this was our idea.

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You know, our role was really to create the space for our people to do this

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and for them to have permission to do it.

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Yeah, that's such an amazing point is the amount of resources and talent that

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you have being unleashed towards creative positive outcomes is a plus. Jim.

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Yeah, so I'd throw in two things I would throw in on this are.

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One, we, this agency has always talked about making sure the voice of workers are heard.

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And I think we have done a number of things. We could talk for an hour about

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the number of things that have been done, not just to make certain that the

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voice of workers are heard in the OSHA process from every part of the system,

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from rulemaking to enforcement and all things in between,

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but to really take into account and better convey to the regulated community

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the importance of the voice of workers, the institutional capacity and knowledge

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that workers bring to them.

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You know, it's what you and I have been talking about in our 20 years of knowing each other, Todd.

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And I think it's just important that we have left more capacity for OSHA to do that moving forward.

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And the second thing are the advances around health and safety management systems,

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because that conversation has an important place in the equation.

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And we have contributed in a number of places where we can to make certain that

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there's both a recognition of workplaces that are instituting good safety management systems at work,

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but also helping them to recognize what their needs are and how to get from

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point A to point B in that process.

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That's such an important point.

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And that changing understanding of the workers' role has been really an important

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and significant part of the changing discussion that I think you guys have been

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really at the forefront of.

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What do you see as the future?

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Don't predict what the next administration will do because we're terrible at

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that, but how do you see OSHA's role changing in the larger sense of...

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What do you see developing? What do you see happening? What are you seeing inklings

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of in the field with your talented staff as we move forward?

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So I think that long run, where the uncertainty lies is not what a particular administration may do.

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But what the courts may do, because that has longer significant impact on the

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agency and on the administrative functions of government.

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And so one thing that OSHA may find itself having to do in the long term is

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to be adaptive when it comes to judicial interpretations of its authority,

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both in enforcement and in rulemaking.

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And so one of

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the things that I fear is that our compliance

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efforts and our enforcement efforts might someday lead to judicial restraints

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on the agency that will point us overall in the wrong direction in terms of

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health and safety because it would give people permission to be more lax.

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Because I do think that enforcement is a critical floor and that if people had

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more permission and more flexibility to skirt the rules,

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that it creates a moral hazard for some companies that that's not helpful.

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On the more positive side, I think that we see a lot of young talent coming into the agency.

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A lot of people with new ideas, more people with ideas.

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Language skills, bilingual workers, employees

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who have an interest in things like

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the social determinants of health and total worker health and a real interest

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in applying some of the things that they've learned more recently that take

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a broader view of health and safety and applying them in the workplace.

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So I'm really excited about the opportunities for the agency to innovate as

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these folks come up through the ranks.

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And it will be really incumbent upon the leadership, both from the frontline

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management up to make sure that people have the space to experiment and problem solve in the field.

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And I think that if the agency can do that, it can overcome a lot of challenges

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it may face, whether those are legal or budget resources or whatever it may be.

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And I think, and I think the other thing is that, that I think,

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you know, we're excited about is, is just trying to increase the engagement with external groups.

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So, so we've really pushed health and safety management systems,

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as Jim mentioned, and we've seen a tremendous positive response from groups

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like VBP and, and ASSP, you know, VPP.

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You know, even changed its, its mission statement in response to our engagement

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with them to have a broader view of how to bring health and safety management

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systems to employers that are not, you know, within the organization.

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And so, you know, that effort that we've made to leverage the professional community

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to themselves be, you know, evangelists with other employers for stronger health

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and safety and within their industries for stronger health and safety,

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there's a potential for that to really, you.

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To really grow. And then I can, I can talk more about worker participation in

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a second, but I'll hand it over to Jim.

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Well, and I'd just add in the, the one thing I would add in is I think we had

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both, both some small successful examples of this,

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but also a number of places where this is seated to really grow the ideas around

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the concepts that are being talked about across other parts of,

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of regulators about regulating differently so that,

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that the mission of this agency has reached in the efficiencies that we can

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find to get there quicker,

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better, and more effectively engaging workers.

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Commitment from employers, and ways to find and fix hazards in the workplaces.

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I think we're kind of right at the precipice of that, and we could see that

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continue regardless of who's sitting in these couple of chairs that Doug and I currently occupy now.

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And I think part of your legacy, it needs to be said to you guys,

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is that you really created the permission to be more innovative.

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I mean, that's definitely part of what you guys carried into it.

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And I would suggest it was a direct result of all the crap that you guys came into.

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COVID is the one that's in my brain right now, but it allowed you to really

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change the dialogue and for the agency to be seen as more innovative than it

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probably ever has been in its history.

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That's a really important piece of data that you guys can carry forward as this

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transition happens. I think that's valuable.

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And I think you're right on target, both of you guys, and I appreciate it and

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want to thank you for it because I do think you've allowed the worker to participate in a different way.

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And I would suggest I'm pretty biased, but a more effective way in this discussion,

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not just at the local organizational level, but really at a more global level,

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at a more national level.

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And that's a really important piece of information that we should talk about.

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I think that's the other piece of what changed in COVID is that workers' interest

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in health and safety has grown even more than employers because it impacted all workers.

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And we see a huge interest from worker organizations and individual workers in health and safety.

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And the challenge is how someone, whether it's not necessarily us,

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but how those organizations corral that energy.

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Because the worker who enters this is, you know, it's a little different than,

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say, wage and hour issues or something or economic issues where you can go out and hire a lawyer.

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And as a result, there's kind of external expertise that people who are advocates for workers.

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And in the area of health and safety, OSHA is really the main game in town.

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So, yeah, you unions have expertise, but, you know, that if you're not in that,

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if you're not in a union, then then there's really there's a handful of places

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to go if there's a worker center.

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But but even in those spaces that there's limited expertise in health and safety.

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And so how do you you know, how do these workers express their interest?

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And I mean, they understand I mean, you know, they're in the workplace.

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They have a lot of knowledge of what the issues are within their workplace,

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but they have less understanding of how you obtain a remedy or how you get a solution.

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And so there's a tremendous opportunity.

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And I don't think employers should shy away from it. I think they need to seize

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on the opportunity to engage with workers and.

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And use workers as a resource to improve health and safety.

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We've gotten a lot of criticism for, you know, from some sectors of the employer

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community for our work, you know, expanding who can be a party representative in an inspection.

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And I think that a lot of the criticism has been theoretical instead of what

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actually happens in practice.

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I think we are, you know, in the last quarter, we've had about 1%,

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1% participation of a third-party representative in our inspection.

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So that's, you know, 72 inspections out of 7,400 inspections that have happened.

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But before that, it was around, you know, 15 inspections a quarter.

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So, you know, I didn't do the math, but it's well under 1%, you know,

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0.15 or whatever it would be. So you had very little worker participation.

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And so it's a modest amount, but it's still a marker of significant increase

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of interest on the one hand,

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but also an expression of the reality that there's still very limited capacity

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out there for people to have the skill sets to be active participants.

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So that's something that if it can grow, if there are more health and safety

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committees, it's a great opportunity.

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And I think it's also it's probably an indication that there's a lot of places

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out there where workers are engaging with their employer and fixing things and

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we're not involved, which is really the ideal. Right. Right.

00:18:54.369 --> 00:18:59.389
And I think, Doug, it goes on to sort of imply a larger change,

00:18:59.609 --> 00:19:04.389
which is that the management sees the worker in a different role.

00:19:04.689 --> 00:19:09.929
And part of that dialogue that's changing at the management level is changing

00:19:09.929 --> 00:19:14.589
because you guys sort of created an opportunity to change that dialogue for leaders.

00:19:14.829 --> 00:19:20.889
Leaders can now see workers really as people who have kind of a lot of expertise.

00:19:20.889 --> 00:19:24.249
Companies and i and i think that's really been an important shift

00:19:24.249 --> 00:19:26.929
that's happened pretty recently i mean i think you

00:19:26.929 --> 00:19:29.669
guys can to a great extent take some credit for

00:19:29.669 --> 00:19:32.789
that and and should for sure what are

00:19:32.789 --> 00:19:35.649
you thinking jim it looks like something really profound is about to

00:19:35.649 --> 00:19:40.029
shoot on this on this topic todd the the one thing that always comes to my mind

00:19:40.029 --> 00:19:44.889
is the very first time i took a health and safety um course in college in you

00:19:44.889 --> 00:19:51.649
know 1980 something was that on a stone tablet pretty much And we had the cars

00:19:51.649 --> 00:19:55.409
that we had to use our feet underneath them to get to campus on.

00:19:56.769 --> 00:20:03.069
But the way that the OSHA Act was taught to me in that Safety 101 course was

00:20:03.069 --> 00:20:08.229
exactly what Doug just described, that the OSHA Act provides for workers to

00:20:08.229 --> 00:20:10.449
be involved and be part of this process,

00:20:10.609 --> 00:20:12.569
including the walk-around inspection,

00:20:12.569 --> 00:20:16.509
and workers get to pick a person to represent them in that process.

00:20:16.509 --> 00:20:19.329
That's the way I learned it in 1980 something.

00:20:19.689 --> 00:20:24.309
And, you know, over time it had really, really changed to put in different connotation.

00:20:24.469 --> 00:20:28.849
And this rulemaking, I really think is truly just to get us back to what the

00:20:28.849 --> 00:20:32.929
intent of the OSHA Act is to hear that voice of workers.

00:20:33.349 --> 00:20:36.749
And we'll see where it goes from here.

00:20:38.264 --> 00:20:44.404
Message do you guys have for your stakeholders that have been with you the last

00:20:44.404 --> 00:20:46.864
four years? What do you want to leave us with?

00:20:47.484 --> 00:20:49.644
I just want to thank people for,

00:20:51.664 --> 00:20:57.984
either trusting us or at a minimum being open to having a dialogue with us and

00:20:57.984 --> 00:20:59.324
giving us the opportunity to

00:20:59.324 --> 00:21:05.744
prove that we were willing to listen and take people's issues into account.

00:21:06.444 --> 00:21:08.664
And try to resolve them when we could.

00:21:09.364 --> 00:21:15.724
And that we always wanted to have that dialogue.

00:21:16.024 --> 00:21:20.944
And I think, you know, I was, he's just one example, but he comes to mind.

00:21:21.084 --> 00:21:25.564
I got a nice note from Matt Comfort with Quanah, who's, you know,

00:21:25.664 --> 00:21:28.044
with the ET&D partnership.

00:21:28.444 --> 00:21:30.964
And, you know, we don't see eye to eye on everything, right,

00:21:31.084 --> 00:21:38.124
by any means, but we could always work together on the areas where we had a common interest.

00:21:38.444 --> 00:21:45.304
And I wish that more people who are cynical about government could see how folks

00:21:45.304 --> 00:21:50.744
who maybe don't agree on some things can get together and find solutions on

00:21:50.744 --> 00:21:54.284
the things that they care about, even if they don't take the same approach.

00:21:54.504 --> 00:22:01.324
And I just want to thank guys like him and many others who have been real partners

00:22:01.324 --> 00:22:02.664
in those kind of dialogues.

00:22:03.284 --> 00:22:08.064
Yeah. And I heard from a, from similarly, I heard from an industry representative,

00:22:08.324 --> 00:22:13.304
a health and safety professional out of the power generating industry,

00:22:13.544 --> 00:22:16.944
just, just the other evening, he and I were chatting for a minute and,

00:22:17.224 --> 00:22:21.364
and, you know, he commented about just the openness that, that over these last

00:22:21.364 --> 00:22:28.004
four years, the unexpected openness that, that they felt in their industry of

00:22:28.004 --> 00:22:30.644
being able to have a dialogue with us.

00:22:30.804 --> 00:22:35.164
And that's where we started this four years ago and continued that message on

00:22:35.164 --> 00:22:40.284
through is if somebody wanted to talk, we were certainly here available and willing to talk.

00:22:40.484 --> 00:22:47.264
And so I hope that that sort of a process continues forever at this agency.

00:22:47.444 --> 00:22:51.344
And the second thing is, there are some who say, well, we didn't get done some

00:22:51.344 --> 00:22:52.504
of the things on our list.

00:22:52.564 --> 00:22:56.264
And to that, I just always think back that if we would have gotten done everything

00:22:56.264 --> 00:23:00.224
that was on the list at the beginning of this four years, the list wasn't long

00:23:00.224 --> 00:23:03.204
enough because there's a lot of work to be done in health and safety.

00:23:03.284 --> 00:23:06.804
We got the part of it and there's still some very important work to do.

00:23:07.324 --> 00:23:12.464
Bravo. That's the perfect answer. So the next question is really important and

00:23:12.464 --> 00:23:16.324
you guys are both going to be awkward and humble, but the big question that

00:23:16.324 --> 00:23:19.824
everyone's asked me to ask you both is what's next for you?

00:23:20.971 --> 00:23:24.611
Here's the awkward and humble part. Well, I think Jim's going on a walk.

00:23:24.911 --> 00:23:26.791
I know he's going on the Camino.

00:23:27.471 --> 00:23:30.851
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I leave in a handful of days.

00:23:30.991 --> 00:23:33.651
My backpack is packed. I was showing it on a call yesterday,

00:23:33.771 --> 00:23:37.371
showing it to Doug and other people that were on the call. My backpack's packed. I can lift it up.

00:23:37.571 --> 00:23:42.611
So I'm ready to take a little bit of a break and have that break of space and

00:23:42.611 --> 00:23:46.511
time to get my head focused on what I want to do next.

00:23:46.871 --> 00:23:51.191
And when I think about what I want to do next, It's really about serious injury

00:23:51.191 --> 00:23:52.251
and fatality prevention,

00:23:52.811 --> 00:23:56.971
safety and health management systems, and integrating those two things with

00:23:56.971 --> 00:24:03.171
a new view approach as workplaces, employers, and workers move forward to a

00:24:03.171 --> 00:24:04.531
better space on health and safety.

00:24:05.171 --> 00:24:09.411
Excellent. Good luck on the walk. Oh, for sure. And here's an important word

00:24:09.411 --> 00:24:12.151
you need to learn, calcetina. Do you know that word?

00:24:12.591 --> 00:24:15.871
You need it. I do not. That's the word for socks, calcetinas.

00:24:17.251 --> 00:24:21.151
I have seven pairs of socks in my bag. That's good. You need seven.

00:24:21.351 --> 00:24:23.251
So that's important. Doug, what about you?

00:24:23.811 --> 00:24:29.651
I don't have a plan right now. I will, you know, I'm working,

00:24:29.671 --> 00:24:33.451
you know, till noon on the 20th.

00:24:33.811 --> 00:24:37.971
And then I'll start thinking more about what the future holds.

00:24:38.911 --> 00:24:44.411
You know, so, you know, I'm open for opportunities. you

00:24:44.411 --> 00:24:47.231
know if i had a catchy phone number i could be

00:24:47.231 --> 00:24:50.431
like junior sample that you know and uh

00:24:50.431 --> 00:24:54.191
br549 but i don't but i

00:24:54.191 --> 00:24:58.371
will i will be you know i'm sitting down with my family and figuring out what's

00:24:58.371 --> 00:25:04.091
next we are going to stay in the in the dc area for for for now and i'll i'll

00:25:04.091 --> 00:25:12.491
be i'll be looking for for work work around here and maybe spend a little time off and and you know,

00:25:12.971 --> 00:25:15.851
get in a few fishing trips and then, then start something new.

00:25:16.011 --> 00:25:18.051
Take a nice walk. It seems like a great idea.

00:25:18.311 --> 00:25:20.251
What did I miss? What should I've asked you?

00:25:20.651 --> 00:25:24.871
What, what message do we want to make sure gets out there that,

00:25:24.951 --> 00:25:27.491
that I just didn't ask anything?

00:25:28.411 --> 00:25:32.271
I think, I think we've covered quite a bit that, you know, the one thing I,

00:25:32.331 --> 00:25:38.251
I, I have my post-it list of my takeaways of four years of work.

00:25:38.851 --> 00:25:43.331
And, you know, the last thing on the bottom of this is that the work here at OSHA,

00:25:43.511 --> 00:25:47.271
it all matters, and that OSHA is making a difference in worker health and safety,

00:25:47.271 --> 00:25:52.771
and that there are people going home tonight or tomorrow or any other time after their shift,

00:25:52.851 --> 00:25:56.271
and they're getting to sit down at their kitchen table and talk about what was

00:25:56.271 --> 00:26:01.171
going on at work because of the work of this agency and the work of the health and safety profession.

00:26:03.091 --> 00:26:07.611
And what I would add, and again, I think I touched on this the last time we

00:26:07.611 --> 00:26:12.151
spoke, Todd, but it's often really hard to find information.

00:26:13.122 --> 00:26:17.842
Concrete outcome measures in this world. The seeds that we sow,

00:26:17.842 --> 00:26:24.122
it really takes a long time for those to bear fruit in most cases.

00:26:24.362 --> 00:26:30.082
And the difference between correlation and causation is always a challenge in

00:26:30.082 --> 00:26:32.402
this world where there's so many variables and dynamics.

00:26:32.962 --> 00:26:37.262
You're just hoping that you're acting on the best information you can to make a difference.

00:26:37.582 --> 00:26:44.322
But there are a couple of things that I'm particularly proud of where the improvements

00:26:44.322 --> 00:26:52.302
are unquestionably the result of OSHA and its partnerships with the health and

00:26:52.302 --> 00:26:54.302
safety community, both management and labor.

00:26:54.582 --> 00:27:03.102
One is on deaths from falls. If you look at the data on our inspections resulting

00:27:03.102 --> 00:27:08.662
from fall fatalities, they're down 20%. They're down almost that much in the States.

00:27:09.062 --> 00:27:10.922
From 2023 to 2024.

00:27:11.382 --> 00:27:16.202
And that's, you know, we don't fully know why, but we know that it's a combination

00:27:16.202 --> 00:27:21.462
of our, we know a number of things have happened. One, we've put a lot of emphasis on it.

00:27:21.642 --> 00:27:26.442
Two, we've been doing more inspections, including onsite inspections and,

00:27:26.442 --> 00:27:30.002
you know, drive-around inspections through our emphasis program.

00:27:30.262 --> 00:27:34.802
We know that the safety equipment community has been promoting,

00:27:34.822 --> 00:27:38.762
and we have been promoting, and big construction companies have and promoting,

00:27:38.762 --> 00:27:40.922
you know, the transition to hard helmets.

00:27:41.202 --> 00:27:45.282
So we don't, you know, we haven't done the analysis to determine how many falls

00:27:45.282 --> 00:27:48.902
switched from fatals to non-fatals as a result of safety equipment like that.

00:27:49.022 --> 00:27:51.502
But it's undoubtedly a factor as well.

00:27:51.902 --> 00:27:54.902
And just the growth in our fall stand down, which,

00:27:55.022 --> 00:28:00.602
you know, went from an idea 10 years ago to 400,000 construction workers at

00:28:00.602 --> 00:28:07.562
in-person events this past May, is just a testament to us moving the needle on, on.

00:28:08.162 --> 00:28:11.642
Fall protection and getting the word out there.

00:28:11.942 --> 00:28:16.242
There's still a lot of work to do, but we're making real progress.

00:28:16.402 --> 00:28:17.842
And the other one is in trenches.

00:28:18.082 --> 00:28:22.142
And that's the result of industry getting together and doing their own stand

00:28:22.142 --> 00:28:25.722
downs, our enforcement efforts, our threats of criminal prosecution.

00:28:26.042 --> 00:28:33.122
And in some cases, those cases being taken by prosecutors, we've seen a reduction

00:28:33.122 --> 00:28:37.682
in Trenching deaths from ground collapse of 75%.

00:28:37.682 --> 00:28:44.142
And that's unmistakably the result of everybody getting together and just deciding

00:28:44.142 --> 00:28:45.582
that that's not tolerable.

00:28:47.871 --> 00:28:52.111
Guys, from the bottom of my heart and sincerely as I can be, thanks for everything.

00:28:53.591 --> 00:28:56.551
You left a really, really important footprint.

00:28:57.091 --> 00:29:02.351
And that footprint that you left is really the agency's got higher levels of

00:29:02.351 --> 00:29:05.831
communication, higher level of trust, higher level of innovation.

00:29:06.391 --> 00:29:10.871
And you're really looking at that balance between compliance and assurance.

00:29:11.151 --> 00:29:14.851
And I think it's made a huge difference. And I think it's a legacy.

00:29:15.031 --> 00:29:17.791
It's going to be a box that's going to be relatively hard to close.

00:29:18.031 --> 00:29:20.451
So, I'm proud of you. Thank you.

00:29:21.271 --> 00:29:26.171
Thanks for everything you do to have done to really change the conversation

00:29:26.171 --> 00:29:27.811
nationally on these issues.

00:29:28.051 --> 00:29:34.751
It's been remarkable to see the impact you've been having over these years.

00:29:39.911 --> 00:29:44.591
Holy cow. So, that last part, I really debated cutting it out.

00:29:44.731 --> 00:29:48.071
In fact, I did cut it out and I got quite a lecture that I should leave it in.

00:29:48.131 --> 00:29:52.851
So I left it in and I must tell you that made me feel remarkable.

00:29:53.211 --> 00:29:57.131
Thank you so much. Thanks to you. I mean, it's not, I'm not doing anything.

00:29:57.351 --> 00:30:02.151
It's, it's, it's not me. It's the opportunity to speak to you that makes the biggest difference.

00:30:02.671 --> 00:30:07.491
And I appreciate it every day. I appreciate it because I appreciate you. Have fun, everybody.

00:30:07.891 --> 00:30:10.711
Learn as much as you possibly can. Do something interesting.

00:30:10.871 --> 00:30:15.451
Have as much fun as possible. And for goodness sakes, you guys, be safe.

00:30:17.520 --> 00:30:27.144
Music.